A date with Dr Travis Wyman

Every double visual I have seen has had the issue. I have seen and heard reports of Pied Lesser and Pied Mojave having them as well, though in these the phenotype tends to be less pronounced. I have not seen or heard of the issue in BluEL het Pieds but, given the obvious synergy with these mutations, I would not be surprised if it were to happen.

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Guess I need to put this in here too since Gavin released it last night

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I beat you to it :wink:
It’s at the top.

I really enjoyed it, even if you nearly lost me with the card analogy :joy:. :+1:

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But it was only nearly lost, not totally lost LOL :laughing: :laughing:

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I have a question relating to your explanation of Pastel with Gavin.

You talk about Pastel being a hypomelanistic trait, with it basically pulling back a few layers of melanin to reveal the colours beneath.

Would Banana be a extreme hypo trait or is there something else going on?
If so, what is the spotting about?

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Yes and no.

Banana, and any of the other T+ type albinos, are all different forms of hypomelanism. Which is to say, they all produce melanin to some extent or other but it is either at a reduced quantity, deposition, or display (finer points not needed for this conversation). So in that respect, they are the same

How they differ comes down to… Call it presentation. In my explanation for Pastel, I likened the melanin to being like a lacy doilie. Let me see if I can sort of redirect that analogy in a way that makes sense…
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Instead of a doilie, instead imagine a fishnet stocking with holes about the size of a dime. Take that stocking and dye only the top portion of it with black ink. Pull that stocking over your leg. Take some scissors and, along the length of your leg on the sides, cut a few holes. Now… Get another stocking and repeat the process, cutting the holes on the new one to match the holes on the one beneath. Do that again. And again. And one last time but for this one, do NOT cut any holes.

Right about now you are probably asking “Why has Travis made me do this to myself” right?

Well, congratulations, your leg now looks like a ball python (sort of).

So how is this relevant to Pastel versus Banana?

With Pastel, the mutation changes the “size” of the holes in the fishnets, instead of being dime-sized they are now quarter-sized. This does not make a huge difference on the areas where there is no pattern cut because the overlapping layers do not line up perfectly so you stay looking mostly black there with occasional spots where the overlap is perfect and you get lighter areas. But on that last outer stocking, the larger holes means that the flesh colour of your leg is less obscured/more visible. And, by extension if the holes in the netting are half-dollar-sized (SuperPastel) this results in less overlapping and more light areas in the non-pattern areas and even higher visibility of the flesh in the cut-out areas

Banana (and the other T+ types) is different. With these, the mutation effects the step where you are taking dye and dying the top half of the stocking. In these cases, the dye has been watered down. So instead of being black, the dyed areas are some shade or other of light grey.

In both situations there is less melanin being presented, but the cause for each is different.

Make sense?

Also, you can go take off the fishnets now (or not, I do not judge LOL)

The spotting in Bananas is something specific to the mutation. For some reason or another, the melanin is being turned back on in small areas. There area a few ways this could happen and I have a suspicion as to what it probably is but I am hesitant to speak it aloud and have someone think I am claiming the idea as being ABSOLUTELY THE WAY IT IS and then spreading it all over FB and the like.

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Strangely, it makes perfect sense and was a fantastic way of putting it.

However straight out of the gate you hit me with something I had never heard before, or maybe I just misinterpreted it…

Banana is a type of albino?

Do you believe this is something that happens individually during the development of the snake or is a genetic trait that can be line bred, such as “big spots” X “big spots” = huge spots.

I was just beginning to get comfortable aswel :joy:

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Yeah, Banana can safely be considered as another of the T+ type albinos along with Caramel, Ultramel, Lav, etc.
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Not something where you could breed for larger spots, no. If it is what I think it could be then it might be possible to select for animals that have more versus less freckling

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The analogy was great but it was kind of a stressful to imagine though :joy:

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I read the title and thought it was an auction…well then.

Travis is always a great wealth of information. I have listened to some, but was unaware of the CRISPR one. Always been interested in the potential of that. Looks like I got a couple to listen to tonight. Thanks

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My wife might take exception to that LOL

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Adding a new one in - Snakes & Stogies nidovirus round table with Dr. Dale Porcher DVM and myself:

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This is definitely a needed video, especially considering the ones we have seen around the subject lately that are… at the least, agenda fueled. :metal:

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Guess I should update this thread:

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Or at least let me know when your doing these things :crazy_face:

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Travis doesn’t have time to clear things with the likes of you Thomas!

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He is a busy man with many important things to do, like baking.

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Most of the time, these things happen with little notice. I find out when I get out of work and finally get my phone back and then head home, eat dinner, and end up on a 'cast LOL
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Not true… It just has to be when I have enough time. I kind of make it a personal policy to not log into the forums from home (unless there is an emergency) so unless I know a few days ahead, I cannot announce it here
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I still always try to make time for my herp people
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I will say that I have another one potentially happening, but we are still working out scheduling. If I get it in time I will make sure everyone knows :+1:t4: :+1:t4:

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@t_h_wyman have you been working with Steve Tillis on Nidovirus research? I believe you mentioned him in the second Snakes and Stogies podcast you linked. The first was rather interesting, do you know if it’s been proven that vehicle transmission can occur? As you’re probably aware, Steve has segregated a population of Nido positive animals and produced a number of Nido negative offspring from them, I was just wondering if there was anything that would contradict that. I’m also curious if any experiments have been done with Invectermin in snakes

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I have not done work with Steve but he and I have spoken a few times and there may be some collaborative work in the future.

It has not been proven that vehicle transmission can occur but it is very likely that it can, we see the behaviour in most of the other viruses in the family. Definitive proof would require intentionally infecting animals and I do not know any place that is set up for that kind of experiment.

There is nothing that would directly contradict vertical transmission not occurring, that said, there are some other viruses in the family that can so it is something that, at a hobby level, I think is easily investigated. That level of investigation could also lend to vehicular transmission - fecal matter on an egg could harbor the virions long enough to inoculate the hatchling as it emerges

I know of no experiments done on ivermectin. Again, snakes not being a common model-organism, there are few places that are set-up to test these kind of things

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