Honey is a BEL complex animal as well. Works similar to Russo but the single gene tends to be a little more obvious / pretty.
To be fair, I can pick two lessers, two mojaves, two different yellowbellies, etc and they would look just as different. Could also pick two fires that look more different than those two. Individual variation is a thing with all these morphs.
If they are indeed distinct genes then this “washing out” would be impossible. Yes, It is possible to wash out a good pastel line by breeding it into ugly pastels. But you can’t wash out a Mojave by breeding it with an ugly pastel, because they are two distinct genes.
Just to clarify a few points concerning Lemonback, Sauce, and Lucifer, Lucifer and Lemonback are not the same thing. Lucifer and Sauce are the same though. Lemonback was discovered by Chad Brown in 2008 and I bought a pair of them in 2009. I will include a screen shot of my Collection Page where I write about it and the Super Lemonback. Sauce and Lucifer however are the same. You can read about the Sauce and Lucifer at the following link. http://www.albeysreptiles.com/sauce.htm
Matt (OWAL) can correct me if I am mistaken here but I believe he grouped Lucifer and Lemonback as being “the same” because both of them produce pure-white supers. I lump Sauce, Mota, and RDR’s DesertLemon with those two for the same reason. Because all five of these produce pure-white supers I think it is reasonable to call them the same as it is no different than why we call Butter and Lesser the same
Sauce and Lucifer are pattern changers and both originated from the same breeder. Lemonbacks are not pattern changers. All of them do produce pure white Supers though.
I recently purchased a bamboo female. Now, she’s just a baby but a few years from now I’d be interested in breeding her to get a BEL. So, with that being said I am considering buying her mate as a young adult or baby within the next year or so. What morph would be my best bet to give me a clutch of BELs?
Depends on what kind of BluEL you want to make. For a whiter BluEL I would suggest Butter, Mojave, or Russo. For a dirtier BluEL I would say Phantom or Special.
If you want a statistically higher chance of making BluELs then breed to a BluEL - 1:2 odds rather than 1:4
Problem is some of the “well respected breeders” are the tom dick and harry’s you are referring to.
I applogize for my absence, working 7 days 12 hours with scattered overtime has me tied up pretty good. Job should be ending soon tho, but I thought that last week also. I did have enough sense to bring my laptop today as we had planned down time, so here I am.
Looking at random google images I having a hard time seeing it. I’ve always seen fire as a minor pattern changer that gets more extreme with some combos. I’m assuming the pattern you are referring to is the sorta broken, sorta banded pattern it seems all your sauces have. I see this pattern or some form of in most animal labeled lemonback also. Which wouldn’t be unreasonable to see, as I would imagine lemonback has been out crossed far more than sauce, just being an older gene. Given the normal fire seem to have a minor pattern influence, I think we are just seeing the more extreme version of that pattern change as lemonback/sauce/lucifer seem to be the more extreme version of fire. I’m very open to your input though as you have dealt with both genes for years, but I’m just stating my internet search observations.
If you get a chance check out the page I did on the Sauce Gene it explains it a bit better than I can writing it out here. http://www.albeysreptiles.com/sauce.htm
i was wondering has someone bred a green pastel to a het red and got a red axanthic. i can’t seem to find anything showing het red and green pastel are the same or than he said he said.
Was informative, thank you. It comapred to fire a lot, but doesn’t address lemonback vs sauce. I am still stuck on lemonback not being a pattern changer. I still see plain ol fire as a minor pattern changer and I see in pictures lemonback as changing the pattern quite a bit, while ill admit having a greater variety compared to sauce, but I could explain that away to myself as it having more time to out-cross. Which that, the brighter coloration, that lemonback and sauce have compared to fire and the pure white BlkEL makes me want to put them in the “same” category. You are probably the most qualified person to make that call though.
Great write up, This should be a sticky topic for sure.
I might be mistaken but I believe Lucifer is a dominant trait. It has no super form.
I believe Honey is also in the BEL complex