Are Ball Pythons Semi-Arboreal? (Video)

[thecrawdfather]

@keiyla_insp

I don’t think anyone is trying to claim that ball pythons are semi-arboreal or should be classified as semi-arboreal,

He says it twice in the first 5 seconds of the video haha.

[inspirationexotics]

The video is a bit exaggerated, as has already been pointed out. But I think the ultimate point is that ball pythons are observed climbing often enough in the wild to warrant another look at the common mantra of “ball pythons can’t/don’t climb,” which I would tend to agree with - especially when we know that climbing does increase and retain muscle tone in this species. There’s nothing wrong with advancing husbandry as we learn new things about our animals. Passing ball pythons off as purely terrestrial or incapable of utilizing climbing opportunities is a disservice to the behavior they do display in the wild, and I think that’s a fair point, even if the video doesn’t explain that the best.

[thecrawdfather]

I guess I do come off as dismissing it, but only because in my mind it’s pretty simple if my choices are starve or climb up that tree and raid a birds nest I’ll go for option B.

You need to keep in mind as well the intent behind the video and the claim is to establish that anyone who keeps their BPs in a terrestrial setting is “depriving” them of natural behavior and no one should keep them that way, and that’s not supported by fact.

I’m all for giving them a great life.

I think there are better enrichment options we can go for in captivity.

[lumpy]

@speakeasy_serpents

It would seem the same virus that has infected so many other social media sites has made it way to the MorphMarket forum. So I bid a fine farewell and adieu. May you all lead blessed lives, should you be fit to do so.

I hope you do too, you brought much knowledge and passion to the forum and hobby.

[overload_reptiles]

I agree with the opportunistic behaviors. I just so badly want to see a GTP bred with a BP. Imagine a Mojave GTP or an Albino Aru GTP white yellow and blue colors. Probably my dream animal to see.

[overload_reptiles]

Also with the tub racks I don’t see any abuse to it. There completely in the dark being fed weekly. That seems like the perfect life. But I’m all for enrichment also.

[7snakes]

If anything, I think the facts presented in the video speak for how well ball pythons can adapt to different environments. There’s a reason they made it into the pet trade and eventually became popular, because in spite of occasional feeding issues, they’re a fairly hardy snake. Thanks to Craigslist and some badly run pet stores, I’ve seen ball pythons survive conditions that could kill many other species.

It’s wonderful that they have so many diverse behaviors and diets in the wild, but I think it’s a leap to say that just because some ball pythons from one area were found in trees everyone now has to give their ball pythons a perch or else you’re a bad person who doesn’t care about your animal’s health and wellbeing. And that’s not even to mention the leap to semi-arboreal the video makes in spite of obvious morphological differences between ball pythons and species that are actually semi-arboreal.

The bottom line: It’s fine to love your snakes and want the best for them, but it’s not okay to trash people who keep them differently. If carried too far, it gets to be a witch hunt. I’m not about that noise.

[wmb1965]

I think the animal rights activist go a little too far myself. Next thing you know they will have us keep our cows in the house and make all Americans become vegetarians.

(No, there is nothing wrong with keeping a cow in the house or being a vegetarian, If that is what you want go for it… )

But I’m not going to do it.

[saleengrinch]

@thecrawdfather

If that’s what you got from Travis’ as always detailed analysis then…I think you missed one or two points.

agree I have had many spirited debates with Dr Wyman and whether you agree or disagree with him he is always honest intellectually. He reads all evidence provided and known and makes an intelligent statement based on that. Just because someone doesn’t agree doesn’t mean Travis is attacking anyone or dismissing anyone’s opinion. To compare what he said to a virus is totally unfair and just mean in my opinion. He has swayed my opinion on a few things we as keepers should always be trying to improve the care our animals receive. We should always at least listen to opposing views when they are presented in an intelligent manner.

[jrc_retics]

@saleengrinch

Just because someone doesn’t agree doesn’t mean Travis is attacking anyone or dismissing anyone’s opinion. To compare what he said to a virus is totally unfair

I can agree there.
If there is anyone on this forum that is completely unbiased and fair to how he responds to each member, it’s Dr. Wyman.
Wether you agree with him or not is besides the point, he treats each person on here with honesty and respect in my opinion, and we haven’t always agreed either.

[jrc_retics]

@overload_reptiles

Imagine a Mojave GTP or an Albino Aru GTP white yellow and blue colors.

I’m definitely no expert on genetics expression, but I would think Albinism would not allow the blue color on the GTP to be displayed. Not trying to crush your dreams, but I believe it’s not possible.

[patriotballs]

I provide 5 out my 6 BPs a nice terrarium with climbing opportunities. Over the months, I’ve noticed only my females take advantage of the entire enclosure while the one male I have stays in his hide almost 24/7 except when he goes out for water. Yet most research I’ve seen shows the opposite is suppose to be true. I am thinking of swapping the one female I have in a tub enclosure with my male because she also likes to explore her tub, but it is to small for me to fit branches in there.

[t_h_wyman]

@thecrawdfather, @saleengrinch, @mnroyals,

Thank you gentlemen, I appreciate the kind words

Also, you all need to quit calling me “Dr.” on here all the time. Seriously LOL. I get that it is a sign of respect, and I do appreciate that as well, but for the unholy love of Cthulhu!! I have never really hung to the protocol of it to begin with (in twelve years exactly two of my coworkers have called me “Dr.”) and this place is supposed to be a casual hang out. Think of it like we are all hanging out at a party drinking beer. If you call me “Dr.” in that setting I am going to want to pour my beer over your head. We are all friends here, please, just call me “Travis”. If there ever comes a time where I actually have to roll up my sleeves and slam my doctorate against a desk to get someone to listen I am sure we will all understand what drives me to that point.

And speaking of…

[t_h_wyman]

@speakeasy_serpents

As for the second part of my comment …I would like to thank you all for proving my point, I appreciate your cooperation.

Let me see… This is the second part of your comment, yes?

@speakeasy_serpents

I definitely think its worth a deeper look, not to just be dismissed cause its hard to hear.

I would kindly ask you to show me where, exactly, I dismissed this out of hand.

I took a look at the source material. Not only that, but I went deep. Deeper than just his source. I read papers on studies of the biophysiology of snakes. I read papers on studies of the biomechanics of snake movement. I read papers on studies of the the range and habitat types of ball pythons. I read the other papers out there that looked at feeding and behavioural studies of ball pythons.

And after all that research, what did I do?

Did I say that ball pythons never climb?

Did I say that it is stupid to give ball pythons a branch or some other object to climb on?

Did I say that everything you said was pointless and stupid?

No. No. And… No.

What I said was that just because sources were cited does not change the fact that the information presented in that video was being blatantly misrepresented to make an untrue claim that ball pythons are a semi-arboreal species.

Very literally, nothing about what I said was dismissing it out of hand because it was hard to hear.

If you want to see someone that acted along the lines of a sufferer of the social media virus, as you call it, then perhaps look in a mirror.

What did you do?

@speakeasy_serpents

I have yet to read these sources

You did not go deeper.
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@speakeasy_serpents

he sited his sources. Which you never see.

You ignored what I had to say because it was hard for you to hear a reasoned explanation of why the act of citing sources does not guarantee credibility.
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@speakeasy_serpents

So I bid a fine farewell and adieu

You took the time to make a post telling everyone how much you dislike this group and so you are going to leave because you felt it was terribly important we all knew you were leaving.
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@speakeasy_serpents

May you all lead blessed lives, should you be fit to do so.

And then you stormed off with one last parting insult
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I am sorry, but if that is not the most basic form of Facebook tantrum then I am not sure what is.

And yes, I openly admit that right now I am being straight up blunt and perhaps even a little disrespectful about the matter. But when you make a personal attack at me, I am not going to just sit there and take it.

[t_h_wyman]

@overload_reptiles

Imagine a Mojave GTP or an Albino Aru GTP white yellow and blue colors.

@mnroyals

but I would think Albinism would not allow the blue color on the GTP to be displayed.

@mnroyals is correct, it is the interaction with melanin and guanadine crystals in the iridophores that give you the blue colour. So if you strip the melanin, you lose the blue

[saleengrinch]

@t_h_wyman

Also, you all need to quit calling me “Dr.”

I only say this when I’m trying to be super serious! But if you want to take this from me fine… Travis

In all seriousness I only say this because a doctrine is no small feat for anyone to obtain. So I do use it as a term of respect. But I will refrain from saying it. Just note unless otherwise noted I have nothing but the upmost respect for you Travis.

[t_h_wyman]

@saleengrinch

I only say this because a doctrine is no small feat for anyone to obtain. So I do use it as a term of respect

As I said, I fully understand and greatly appreciate that.

I guess, for me, it is just that I have seen/been around too many MDs and PhDs that use their title as a tool for either arrogantly setting themselves above or bullying others (and on a broader scale, the antagonism toward the “elitist scientist” is a real thing.) So when I see/hear people calling me “Dr.” I worry that newer folks in the hobby and people who do not know me well will place me in the same arena as the arrogant bullies.

To put it another way… Is it fair to say I am “better” than my friend Mark because of my understanding of science? In a certain light, sure. But under that same light it is equally as fair to say Mark is “better” than me because he can remove and repair the engine of a car. We all have our strengths that we play to. We all have our weaknesses that we should recognize and own. But Mark does not have a title I can call him in recognition of how he is “better” than me, so I would be more than a bit of an ass were I to insist that Mark call me “Dr. Wyman” all the time in recognition of how I am “better” than him

It is a weird hangup I have, but it is there nonetheless.
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@saleengrinch

Just note unless otherwise noted I have nothing but the upmost respect for you Travis.

The feeling is mutual, sir

[lumpy]

Getting to know someone through video documentation is one thing. But getting to converse with @t_h_wyman (over the forum) it’s completely different. There are usually multiple times in different topics a person comments on or at least likes. @speakeasy_serpents was wrong in calling @t_h_wyman a virus, especially in our world’s current predicament. A virus is a non life envelope of proteins that contains genetic information that can’t even replicate itself. It is insulting especially because it is apparent that he can process his own thoughts. I believe as a form, and a community of reptile lovers in a world that is dismissive or even hateful against reptiles, we need to stay strong. We have enough people possibly tearing us down on the outside but inside our community should be a strong place to stand as a reptile enthusiast and make friends that are also.
I just wanted to say lastly that I’m thankful for people like @saleengrinch @t_h_wyman, and @mnroyals because it is shown through multiple responses, comments, and topics that you guys are truly trying to make the community a better place for people to gather and find strength in community.