Profits drive the ability to run a business doing what we love and are passionate about. I think it is wonderful there is such market potential that give us that ability. One can certainly place consideration on profitability while simultaneously being genuinely passionate about the hobby.
I experienced first hand in the 2000’s with boas how bad it can be focusing too much on profits. I had a extreme passion for boas, before I had a family and children it was my sole focus, but there were many genes outside of my financial reach. A family member saw the investment potential and agreed to invest a large sum. His focus was on return and many debates ensued because my focus was on the animals, genetics, and hobby. In the end I completely got out of it because of the investment pressure and it soured an important family relationship.
I do think there is risk investing into high dollar animals before understanding proper husbandry and breeding techniques. I wouldn’t necessarily advocate that for someone brand new to snake keeping.
Yes, but not everyone needs to operate as a business. Having a hobby that covers it’s own cost is perfectly fine.
I have no issues with the advice given here but it is not the right thread. We should re-focus this thread on the OP question. What mutations do we think are cool mixed with BELs or BEL complex mutations? Which BEL looks the coolest? Which has the most/least pattern? Etc. The list goes on…
This throws me for a loop.
Is it inexperienced/new breeders just shelling out money and not keeping them right? Having bad luck?
My first try at breeding was last year and I got 3 clutches no problem. I’ve had one bp for around 12 years now, the rest I’ve had for 3-4 years.
I’ve got 4 pairings for this year; so it baffles me how someone can never produce.
The reason that I made the suggestion to stick to higher end is animals is pretty simple. Wasn’t specifically a business motivated suggestion. The hobby is saturated with 1-2-3 gene inc dom combos. There is not an unlimited market for them.
Sticking to something that has a little higher market value and lower market saturation is just common sense. Unless the plan was to keep every hatchling.
Higher value protects the animal to a degree from ending up in lurch being resold as a surrender. If you want to ensure your animals get good homes and stay in them, that is one way to do it. It’s no secret that BPs (snakes in general) of a lesser dollar value are much more commonly kicked around from home to home. Look at the “Please ID my new BP” threads, and look at the condition a lot of the animals are frequently in when they post them here. Anything het for clown or pied or Axanthic will eventually end up reaching a value where it will sell. Again, unless the plan is to keep every snake, they need to sell, to good homes.
I would like to point out that unless your buying in as adults every high end morph comes down. So in the amount of time it takes to get a ball python female to breeding size the price will have probably came way down. Pieds and albinos used be thousands upon thousands but the price dropped quickly once people started producing them. Single gene version of these genes sell on par in price with bels now. A lot of times cheaper.
I have no problem with where the thread is going for anyone concerned with that as the op I would also like my original question to still be answered and I would like to correct my typo in the op it’s a 500 each budget
As far as other morphs that’s something that you have to decide yourself. Nobody can tell you what your favorite morphs are that you want to work with the most. However we can give you advice on what might be better than others. How many bel’s would you like to produce? A het x het pairing will result in 25% bel’s, het x homo for 50%, and a homo x homo for 100%. I’m guessing you don’t want all bel’s since you want other morphs in the pairing. I recommend getting a heterozygous or homozygous female with extra morphs now and once she’s nearly grown up getting a high-gene heterozygous male. By then you might have decided if you want to breed other morphs or not. If you do then you can get a male that would also be good for other projects. If you only want to produce bel’s then you might want a less expensive lower-gene male. For now I recommend browsing here and changing mojave to other BEL morphs you want to work with. If there are any morphs you don’t want you can add them to the excluded traits. Once you find something you like you can look at the morphs in it and see if you like them possibly purchase the snake. I recommend getting a female with dominant traits and if you want a recessive trait.
How about something like a mystic potion and a crystal then you could produce varying types of bels. You would get more of a variety but still every baby would be a bel of sorts. If you try and mix het clown or het anything with bel clutches the bels are going to cover up the other genes anyway. And you have zero chance of producing normals or one gene animals.
Its a lot of things, some newer people get to big to fast and just cant handle it. Others just straight up think its going to be easy and flip the money fast. Neither are good ways to do it, start small on a good priced budget. Its not cheap and it takes a lot of work but its more than worth it
IMO. Buy and breed what interests you or like in most peoples case what you can afford that interests you and work your way up with sale and holdbacks etc. Build a brand and reputation and produce quality animals. Sounds easier said than done but I feel like quality sells itself especially when advertised right. I’m also still trying to build up a reputation and no matter how other people feel I’m not going to let it discourage me from trying to be successful . It’s not impossible if it’s already being done. But moral of the story lol breed what makes you happy cause you’ll enjoy the ride a lot better
Get what makes you happy and pleases you.
Like you I also like bels so started with those and others i Like, I also like albinos and have a few others i love… What do you like?
There are so many morphs in your price range. Pick and plan for those that you love, there are also hets in your price range.
Otherwise its just a job with no pleasure.
Just my 2 cents as an aspiring breeder building their collection
First and foremost I’ve focused on genetics that I like. I’ve kept my acquisitions to the $300-$1000 range because, from what I’ve seen, snakes falling into this range tend to stay in that range. It allows me to purchase animals that can be loaded with dominant genes or animals with a couple but also added hets or animals with fewer or no dominant genes but visual recessives. I utilize the morph calculators a lot and from what I’ve been seeing, I most likely will also produce snakes in the same price range.
Money is NOT a driving factor for me but I do have a large family and cannot justify a potentially large monetary loss. My thought process is, when I cross the break even point, I can start putting profits towards higher end animals and grow them out while my foundation collection still produces animals with reliable value. If I hold back more promising males they will be able to breed sooner and I can cycle out foundation females (now proven) for a small profit and I can use that money, and profits from hatchlings to acquire subadult-adult females that are higher end.
Most importantly, I cannot fathom any hatchling I would produce from my pairings that I wouldn’t be happy to keep forever
My opinion would be to go with bamboo for your BELs, as even the het form of it sets itself appart from normals. It is also a fairly underexplored area with mixing due to how prominent it is, so if you play with some pattern recessives with it and avoid subtle color recessives, you may find a good market for your hets. Bambam is a BEL, so your homos will be BEL.
I didnt read all the comment thread, i read the first few, but it looked extremely informative, so ill likely be back here after class to read them all as it looks like i may be able to learn something
Everybody’s advice is great. The first and most important thing is, do what you enjoy. Work with morphs that interest you, not what Billy, Justin, Ozzy and Miguel are doing. @wayneteipen is spot on. Find out what morphs you want to create your BELs and even with the bel complex morphs, you can get them with hets for the future for hardly nothing. Before going out and refinancing your house, see if you enjoy the breeding lifestyle. Get a couple of clutches and seasons under your belt and then you can start purchasing higher end snakes.
. It’s not impossible if it’s already being done. But moral of the story lol breed what makes you happy cause you’ll enjoy the ride a lot better