Hello everyone I just wanted to see if I could get some clarity.
I’m not super familiar with either because I haven’t worked with them. I know Super Cinnamon, Super Black Pastel, and Black Pastel + Cinnamon tends to have the kinking and duckbilling issues.
I was talking to someone and they said that Huffman is similar to Black Pastel in combos which makes sense because they are in the same complex. They were saying that using it with Cinnamon or Black Pastel doesn’t produce the birth defects but ends up looking similar. We aren’t shooting for a Cinnamon/Black Pastel/Huffman combo but if we had them in the snakes we were pairing we wanted to not have the chance of making the problem animals.
Also I found an animal for sale that in its description it talks about how Black Pastel has known nasal deformities? I hadn’t heard about that. Could that be why when you get a super version or an allelic super version it gets the bad birth defects?
Anyway thanks for reading. I’m looking forward to everyone’s opinions.
They really won’t look similar to a super blk pastel or 8 ball. They’ll still have varying amounts of pattern. You can see by looking up huffman combos on the market.
I haven’t worked with Huffman personally, so I don’t know how much influence it would have in combos. Enchi is also in the same complex and I personally have yet to see a cinny or blk pastel enchi with a heavy nasal defect like the duckbilling. So maybe huffman is the same in that aspect.
Kinking and Duckbilling is the issue with blk pastel and cinny. It’s mostly in the supers or allelic combo of the two. I have seen one or two single genes with a split lip, but that could also be an incubation issue not the actual genetic defect.
There’s varying degrees of it from just the snout having that more ducklike ‘bill’ look to things like split palate and spilt lips. I’ve personally seen fairly ‘normal’ looking super cinnys have a more upward flicking tongue motion than other morphs as well. Sometimes reaching back almost to touch the snout.
Every single super cinnamon or super black pastel combo I’ve seen has a duckbill deformity, you can’t find any without it. However, I often see animals with heterozygous black pastel or cinnamon that also have varying expressions of a pinched or narrowed snout - I have a single gene cinnamon currently that has a bit of it.
However, as armiyana said, those combos won’t look similar. Huffman combos are cool, but they still pretty much always have pattern and lighter color, so you’re not going to get a black or super dark snake. If you’re looking to make dark combos, I would recommend mahogany - good quality super mahoganies are pretty darn dark.
We don’t plan on trying to make any Super Cinnamons or Super Black Pastels or their combo. Mainly the issue is one of the babies we just hatched in our Hypo project we are pretty sure has Cinnamon. We really like Black Pastel in Hypo as well. We just wanted to avoid the possibly of making problem babies, but if Huffman isn’t really a replacement for Black Pastel I think we will just have to avoid breeding that new baby with any Black Pastel babies until we can prove he doesn’t have Cinnamon.
Just wanted to add that het red axanthic also is in the same complex and doesn’t give you the kinking or bad duckbilling if bred to a black pastel/cinnamon. As with Huffman though there is always some pattern but onyx and gargoyles can be real dark as well and are visually one of my fave 2 gene combos! Just trying to give you more to think about👍 pic 1 a cinnamon, het red ax, pastel looks real super cinny like but is not! 2nd pic is a dark cinnamon, het red ax has pattern but is super dark!