Hello! I did the punnet squares for this myself, with pen and paper, but ran it through a calculator and got a different result, so I thought I would ask people more likely to know
If I bred a Blue Eyed het albino house snake to a wildtype het for both Blue eyed and albino, is there a small chance I could hatch a blue eyed albino?
My punnet squares say no, that the wildtype will only give either a blue eyed or an albino gene to their young but not both. But the calculator says there is a tiny chance. Am I actually wrong and she could give both?
If Blue Eyed & Albino are simple recessives, then the only reason I could think of that a blue eyed het albino paired with a double het wouldn’t be capable of producing a blue eyed albino would be if you’re mixing T- with T+ as they are incompatible.
Blue eye is a form of leucisim. That’s why is is often listed as BEL. Blue Eyed Leucistic.
They aren’t fully lacking pigment like an albino so the eyes may still have color in them. With snakes it’s most commonly blue, but in ball pythons for example, you can have a BlkEL which is short for black eyed Leucistic
Leucistic can still have yellow pigments.
Axanthic is a lack of red and yellow
Adding on to NoodleHaus’s post.
House snakes have 3 forms of albino that are incompatible. T-, T+ and Bushveld albino.
If your BEL is het for T- and the female is het for BEL and T+ you would get a mix of BEL and Het BEL that are 50% double het for T+ and T-.
The 50% is the chance of the baby having each gene, there is absolutely a chance that a baby will only be het BEL. You cannot tell them apart from each other.
The T+ albino will be overall darker in appearance because they can still produce brown pigments.
The T- will be brighter overall. The Bushveld albino seems to be the most colorful of the group and like an enhanced version of T-
I think there’s an opportunity for some clarification.
In the BP world, Snow is the specific name coined for the double recessive combination of Albino and Axanthic. In hobbyist terms, Albino is lacking black pigmentation and Axanthic is lacking yellow pigmentation. That’s basically the two pigments in a BP. Lacking both makes for a white, or Snow, BP. Technically Axanthic is lacking yellow AND red pigmentation, but BPs don’t have any red, just yellow. I think that’s the same for Corns. I say all that because Snow has nothing to do with any of the traits in the BEL complex.
Since they’re both het for t- the results should look like:
BEL
BEL het T-
Het BEL
Het BEL het T-
BEL T- albino
The odds of a BEL is 1:2
The odds of BEL T- is 1:8
Any of the non albino offspring would be considered 66% het. This is because there’s a 2:3 or 66% chance they have the het T-. but there’s still that 33% / 1:3 that will not have her T- and you cannot tell them apart. So it’s a gamble on that gene having passed down or not
This is what I am querying. I saw on the ultimate exotics video regarding the Blue eyed morph and Rolf Dennison says it isn’t a true leucistic mutation, as if it was, it would be pure white when it is born
When looking at the BE T- albino it’s a red eyed snake with no pigment and reminds me of snow in corns and hoggies, and Blue eyed is greyish, could it be more similar to axanthic (brown with the yellow stripped would be more grey) and BE T-albino actually is the house snake version of snow?
Again I am in my first year of snake keeping and this is hypothesis but it has definately made me wonder
This sounds like a job for @t_h_wyman
I don’t know if he has experience with African Cape house snakes, but he definitely can explain why Leucistics can absolutely still have pattern better than I ever could
Short and simple really. Leucism, like albinism, piebaldism, and many other pigmentation-related morphologies, can be “partial”
I will use the other morph you are working with as an analogy: The hobby, collectively, accepts that T-pos albinism is still a form of albinism even though it is not a “complete” red-eye/white amelanistic Albino. And people will readily refer to it as “partial albinism”
You can also look at other species were leucism is documented and see that the gene(s) responsible for leucism often have alleles of various expression that range from complete to partial. The BluEL and BlkEL complexes in balls are great examples:
With BluELs you have SuperButter (complete, no pattern), SuperMojave (“strong” partial, pigmented head and very minimal patterning), and SuperSpecial (“weak” partial, significant pigmentation and patterning)
With BlkELs you have SuperLemonback (complete, no pattern), SuperFire (“strong” partial, only occasional yellow splotching), and SuperVanilla (“weak” partial, complete patterning and only minimal pigment reduction)
Oh I have no doubt that Leucistic animals can still have pattern, my old chipmunk still had very faint lines on his back (It was very strange, to look at him he looked white but if you looked closely he had faint brown on his back and you could still see he was striped!)
But you have made an interesting point that I had forgotten: Leucism in Royals is caused by partial dominance. That is not to say that in African house snakes it cannot be a simple recessive. Just an interesting thought to add to my musings
It is certainly a very interesting discussion and I’m grateful for all the more knowledgeable people who have added to it.
And I hope several years down the line, if i do breed them, I hit the odds and get a BE albino, because they are stunning <3
Aye, however we do not know if the gene behind the mutation is the same between the two very different species so that might account for the matter. There are more than a few genes where mutations can result in leucism
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I know in alterna it is incomplete dominant. And I want to say it is in a couple others as well but at the moment I cannot recall which… (Or maybe it is just the lack of caffeine has my misremembering)
Does that mean Blue eye is a type of Axanthism?
