There is not a visually distinctive super/homozygous form, but it exists, and it will produce all calico/ringer offspring. Incomplete dominant is a dominant trait that has a visually distinctive super form (like mojave or pastel). A dominant trait does not have a visually distinctive super form (like pinstripe or calico).
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But not one person has ever claimed to have a super calico seems a bit odd so where exactly does it exist?
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My thought is that it exists, but it’s not known. Unless somebody has bred a calico to a calico and bred all of the calicos to a non-calico animal and checked the phenotypes of all the offspring, then nobody would know. In pinstripe, super pinstripes are known and it is known that they produce all pinstripe offspring. There are at least 3 of these that I know of.
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And where exactly are you getting your information on the definition of a complete dominant trait?
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That’s just from what I’ve read on genetics that I’ve picked up, I honestly have no idea where I first read it.
But, this website has a brief paragraph on types of dominance. I’m sure there are more, but this was the first one I found. Just the diagrams under the complete and incomplete dominance shows the general idea.
https://opengenetics.pressbooks.tru.ca/chapter/complete-dominance-and-recessive/
I agree that this is much more concerning. I went back to the post above and this is where it was mentioned. I must have missed that the first time I read through it.
I’m hoping that it was just misuse of the word cull and they were sold or at least used as food, but culling an animal just because you don’t have a use for it and you don’t want to pay to house/feed is extremely unethical.
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Sorry @saleengrinch … Erie is right here. You know I love you though 
100% there is a homo Calico, Ringer, Pinstripe Acid, Leopard… You name a Dom trait, it has a homo version.
A dominant trait is one that expresses the same phenotype in both het (1 copy) and homo (2 copies) forms but genetically is still a “Super”…
Basically the only thing seperating a dominant trait from a Incomplete dominant one is that we can not ID it vs the het. They work in the exact same manner.
A homo calico will produce the same calculation chances as a homo Enchi… Is Super Calico viable…? That’s another question, but there is definitely a homo of every trait.
| Het | Homo | |
|---|---|---|
| dom | visual 1 | visual 1 (genetically a “super”) |
| incdom | visual 1 | visual 2 |
| rec | non visual | visual 1 |
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Yes, I completely agree. When I first read in the original post I assumed I read it wrong, but I would really like clarification. If healthy animals were culled for no reason other than to prevent keeping and/or selling them, that’s hugely concerning to me.
Thank you for explaining this better than I could! Yes, in the hobby we use “super” to refer to a homozygous form, and that isn’t what most of the genetics community uses because every gene has a homozygous version whether it is a visual “super” or not. Likely, we just don’t hear about “supers” of dominant genes precisely because they don’t look any different, so there’s significantly less incentive to produce them. But every since incomplete dominant, dominant, and recessive gene has a homozygous form. This one may not have a visual super, but there is absolutely a homozygous form.
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The conversation has been spilt from this trait request.
Please see: The Ethics of Culling Snakes
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Corey has been in the business for a long time and has long been considered as one of the good guys and best breeders in the game. I’m assuming here and could be wrong but i would bet the farm on me being correct… anyway when he said cull, i think he probably just meant sold it or didn’t hang onto it for his holdback collection.
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The only problem with this theory is that he said nobody else had the gene. So how would combos not being used be culled, without anybody else having access to the gene? I would like for there to be a likely theory that didn’t involve the unused snakes being killed, but without confirmation from Corey, we don’t know.
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But if what you are saying is correct, than a super IMG boa (which would just be considered an IMG as it is a dominant trait) would produce 100% IMG offspring?
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Indeed it should, however Im not aware if a viable IMG super has been proven yet.
@mattcookreptiles or @westridge may be able to correct me on that.
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Out of curiosity, is IMG fatal when homozygous? If not, then a IMG to IMG pairing would create 1/4 kf the clutch being “super IMG” but being dominant, you wouldnt know the difference until they were bred due to the het and homo form being identical.
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I haven’t seen anything that suggests that super IMG is fatal besides that a known one hasn’t been produced. I personally plan to try IMG x IMG when I have my own animals to work with. Also I plan to holdback all of the IMGs and work with them. I really want to figure this out lol.
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I know it’s been over a year, but I would really, really like some clarification from Corey on how exactly this gene was managed prior to it being released to the public. Corey’s original post states that any combos that were not used were culled, and while the ethics conversation was split from this one, I still think it’s reasonable to expect some clarification from Corey. We all benefit from transparency.
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I kinda hate to assume, and I’d love to be proven wrong, but based on this gene only existing in his group of animals and the desire to be the first/only for something being so strong in the hobby, I absolutely did read cull as cull, as in the gene animals not used in projects were disposed of.
It makes me feel icky and when the thread started so long ago I was hopeful he would disprove that but…
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I don’t think anyone can or should assume anything on this topic. Obviously in this case he felt attacked and decided not to engage at all. As a huge influence and one of the original people to bring out new morphs and help educate everyone who showed interest in the ball python and reptile world, I think he made the right decision.
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And that’s the reason that I originally asked for clarification, but it was never provided. His own listed evidence (use of the word ‘cull’ which is generally accepted to mean death for the animal in question, as well as his insistence that no one else in the hobby has this gene, which would not be the case if he had wholesaled them) indicates that the animals were likely culled as in death. I believe in giving credit to the big breeders who helped people get into ball pythons, but that doesn’t mean that those breeders should never be questioned. If Corey is asking the hobby as a whole to accept this new morph (which was the original reason for this), we as that hobby have a right to know what measures were taken so that the gene could come to be. If he did not in fact cull healthy hatchlings for the sake of this project, I’m sure we’d all be really happy to hear it! If he did, then we have a right to transparency about that, especially because the implication was originally in his own words. Clarification and transparency aren’t unreasonable to ask for.
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You’re absolutely right and I’m sorry if what I said came across as acusatory, I was just sharing how I interpreted the information we were given. Not trying to start any fires here
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