I did use your link and I do see those options, but one of the three is the vet I already see. I’ll reach out to the others make sure, but it’s my impression that he knows the other two, and they aren’t any more experienced with egg binding in corn snakes than he is, unfortunately.
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I just realized I’ve already been to another one of three the clinics, too. I was pleased with them but I’ve never taken a reptile there. I already called them last week on behalf of a second opinion for Confetti, and they were not willing/able to look at her in time. So sad.
I’ll still try the other clinic, but at this point, I feel like I’ve done my best. Confetti is in the hands of someone who is willing and hopeful enough to try (I didn’t have enough hope to try myself, but I hope I am wrong, of course). My only sincerest wish is that either she suffers as little as possible, or that she beats all the odds against her, and somehow lives the happy life of a pet.
If the additional pain from surgery leads to death, anyway, I hope her added suffering at least contributes to the better health of future corn snakes in my vet’s care. My doctor may not be experienced in this niche market, but he is currently consulting the expert in Chicago and is willing to follow his counsel. I think that’s the best attitude to have when learning or trying something new, and will surely help him become the best local expert over time. He has done surgery on many other reptiles, just not corn snakes who are egg bound. His education may cost Confetti’s life, I realize, but if she saves others, she’s totally the kind of sweet snake who would do such a thing willingly.
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I’m sorry I wasn’t more tactful with my reply, I don’t mean to cause upset. I’m sure Confetti will do great with the tech and I’m very glad there was a resolution that gave her a chance and provided your family with closure on her behalf. I was just very surprised that a vet would suggest treatments while also knowing they didn’t have the experience to perform more invasive procedures if necessary.
As you’ve mentioned he’s ARAV listed, this just goes to show that listing doesn’t necessarily mean a vet is the best fit for every situation/species. As for if he knows the other two, honestly most vets I’ve known don’t keep contact with other competing facilities/vets. I’m glad he’s under advisment from the Chicago vet, and hopefully everything pans out well in the end.
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Thanks for your well wishes. No offense taken, Jess. I know how much you care about the animals and I love that about you!
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And I love your idea of searching out the possibility of a vet with more experience before the next emergency. Good counsel I intend to follow. 
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Even if you end up staying with the vet you have now, it’s never a bad idea to have a backup in case one is overbooked or unavailable for whatever reason! 
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Also a great point. Thanks for your experienced advice.
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I hope that things do work out for Confetti to live a long and happy life as a pet. It’s a hard thing to go through for your whole family. Hugs to you and especially to your son.
Veterinary education for exotics spreads across a very wide variety of creatures. Even for those who want to explore it, it’s a challenge to pursue. It’s hard in many places to find vets who are willing to treat exotics. I hope that it turns out well.
I know that you grew up with animals and this isn’t your first hard decision. I know, too, that having your children struggle with these difficulties isn’t what you hoped for in their first breeding season. With luck these sad days will be followed by nothing but joy during hatching season. 
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Thanks for your sensitive, thoughtful comments, @caryl. I’m really proud of my son for facing these hard decisions. It certainly wasn’t what we hoped for in his first season, and we’ve had plenty of tears together, but overall he’s growing and learning from it. Today, he said he just might try to become a vet tech so he can watch more closely what happens next—maybe becoming his own expert some day so he doesn’t have to rely on others who aren’t experienced. Of course, I support him in that 100%!
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I hope they’re successful with her! Will they let you know if she makes it through the surgery?
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Yes, they promised to keep me updated. If it goes well and she pulls through, I will be much more likely to take the risk in the future. As of now, it’s been my experience that 50% die, 40% live with multiple complications for the rest of their lives, and only 10% go on to live full, active, happy lives. Hopefully, Confetti will improve the odds I’ve seen first hand. If she does, I’ll be much more likely to consider surgery as a positive option in the future.
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Ok. I’m entering the realm of “everyone has an opinion, and I have to make up my own mind,” territory here, but I’m asking this group because the more information I get, the more educated my next decision can be. Pain and grief is a great motivator to be better educated for next time 
I just heard back from an experienced breeder I trust. He says he’s had excellent results from both massaging the eggs out of corns and also aspiration for eggs (with a 12-gauge needle). He says he starts with aspirating the first eggs, and then if that doesn’t trigger all the rest to pass, then he’ll aspirate all the remaining eggs. He says he does this to 8-12 corn snake mamas per year and because he’s particular about cleaning the skin, using sterile instruments, and clean bedding, he’s never once had a death he would attribute to aspiration. He says that very occasionally, there are additional complications, but the vast majority of the time, it works, he says.
One man’s experience isn’t enough to make a decision, but my vet’s inexperienced opinion on the matter was only that “in theory,” if egg fluid leaks into the oviduct, it “could possibly” lead to infection. I asked if he’d ever known of a case where that happened and he said, “No.”
So on the one hand, I have a vote for yes with a very high success rate from an experienced corn snake breeder on 8-12 moms per year (also supported by Kathy Love’s book, but without any data or numbers); and on the other hand, I have an admittedly unsubstantiated “theory.” Do any of you experienced breeders have other hard facts or substantiated data to throw into the pool of knowledge?
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I trust that man’s opinions and actions. I’m guessing he has a much steadier hand than I do. And steady-handed helpers. Your own capabilities definitely have to be factored into decisions involving home resolutions. I’ve had success moving eggs to a point, but once mom is done actively laying, it seems like they always get stuck before the vent.
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As a former vet tech…
It absolutely can lead to sepsis if done incorrectly and the albumin leaks. It can still occur from torn tissue in the oviduct. It’s things to still be aware of. If the eggs have adhered to the oviduct, it’s a bit hard to say if they can be removed gently enough with a massage to not cause more damage.
At the very least, if you do try, I would consider working with a reptile vet to get her on the proper dose of antibiotics as a preventative measure if it is successful. Then you can reduce any chance of infection from the procedure and the torn tissue that’s bleeding already. I’m hoping it hasn’t started going necrotic.
Necrotic tissue is a whole different monster that didn’t end well for me.
You can absolutely try. Obviously if nothing is attempted then we pretty much know where this goes. The downside is that snakes are very stoic, so you wouldn’t know what her response could be until it could be too late.
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This is all good information. Thank you for your experience and chiming in. Just to be clear, I’m not intending to try anything more for Confetti. That ship has sailed. But I would like to learn as much as I can to be more prepared for the future.
Here’s what I’m understanding so far:
Surgery: higher risk (stress, infection, sepsis), highly invasive, mixed results, low probability of full/happy/normal life, high $ cost.
Aspiration: low risk (sepsis), lower invasiveness if done properly, good probability of happy/normal life, low $ cost. Risk increases significantly IF person doesn’t have proper training and very steady hands.
Massage: low risk (tearing oviduct, infection, sepsis), very low overall invasiveness if done properly, good probability of happy/normal, zero $ cost. Risk increases significantly IF person does not have proper training.
So my follow up question is: HOW DOES A PERSON GET PROPER TRAINING???
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So the downside of it is… In the US you really won’t see anyone offering to train unless they are a licensed veterinarian. There’s too much risk with it being considered medical practice without a license which is a nasty fine. I think a big part of why Kevin at NERD can get away with videos and such is because if anyone comes at him he works closely enough with a few vets that they can vouch for him and the animals are his.
If you have a reptile show coming up with some local breeders you can probably test the waters a bit. Chat them up a bit. Ask them if they’d had any issues with eggbinding. What did they do and so on…
Honestly though, I would be careful about it. Even knowing how to do it, you may need radiography or ultrasound to know what’s going on. Too much pressure after aspiration can pop and egg or still rupture the overduct if it’s twisted.
I wouldn’t consider Surgery as high risk as you think. Heck, Jessica has a girl who went through 2 of them. But the timing is what matters most in that case. Once they start getting lethargic it’s definitely a sooner than later. If it’s caught early enough on a healthy breeding female the risk can be relatively low.
Actually come to think of it, there was also a BP with a nasty eggbinding and prognosis had a whole thread posted here too. Her surgery was a success. And Snake Discovery had a video on her
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I would respectfully have to add “the experience/skill of the vet/surgeon, in addition to the timing, both matter most, not just the timing……
Edit to add: @noodlehaus Jess I am assuming your vet is experienced?
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Unfortunately in some cases a “vet in training” gets trained on snakes like yours, but with another Experienced Vet looking over the Trainee’s shoulder
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I wouldn’t trust anyone giving advice who is dealing with that many cases of eggbinding per year, especially if they are not doing so with veterinary oversight/proper equipment and meds. As Christina said, there’s a reason Kevin gets away with filming/publishing his procedures and that’s because he works with a vet and uses proper sterile technique as well as medications (i.e. local anesthetic, antibiotics). If we’re being truthful, many people gain their experience by essentially experimenting on their own animals. I do not condone such behavior whatsoever.
Surgery is expensive and invasive, yes, but an ovariohysterectomy (spay) is one of the more common procedures, and has good potential for a positive outcome so long as there aren’t compounding factors and the vet has the proper experience, as Caron said. I’d push back heavily on the assertion that it has a low probability of normal life. As mentioned I’ve got a girl that’s had two, and she’s no different than any of my other snakes. Edited to add: My girl’s first spay was not entirely straightforward, as she had a torn oviduct and at least one egg free in the coelomic cavity. The only complication she had was a reaction to the suture material used, and even that resolved itself. The second spay a different type of suture was used and she had no reaction to that.
Aspiration is a moderate risk procedure, especially without experience. You could hit a blood vessel, go too far and hit the digestive tract, have leakage causing sepsis, tear the oviduct with the needle, generally several things that would cause a slow, painful death. The procedure itself is painful, and unless you’ve got a vet willing to prescribe you local anesthetic and the know-how to use it, I would never suggest attempting.
Massage is lower risk, but requires a delicate hand. It’s much better done as early as possible before adhesion, but as stated, there is risk of tearing or twisting the oviduct, causing bleeding by tearing vessels, infection, and again, possibility of a slow, painful death.
In my personal opinion, this hobby has a real problem with not trusting professionals and being far too comfortable performing potentially harmful, painful procedures without due care for the animals involved. Gently massaging eggs out is relatively low risk, but to start sticking snakes with needles like a pincushion without knowledge of anatomy, training, oversight, and at the very least some form of infection control is reckless. The guys who are old hat have been doing this stuff for years and know their limitations and what to look out for as far as complications. It’s one thing to try this stuff on something that would actually be worse off/potentially die of stress going to a vet, entirely another to do it on a common, tolerant species like a corn.
I’d also argue how can we expect vets to gain the knowledge to treat things when they’re not being given the opportunity to have hands on experience?
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Yes, I am quite lucky in that my local herp vet is experienced in these procedures, and that even if they weren’t, there are several others within an hour drive that are. I am also painfully aware that this isn’t the case everywhere, and many folks will have a hard time finding even basic care for their animals.
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