I don’t think most buyer understand that depending on who you go thru and where you are located shipping can vary greatly. If you go thru a company like shipyourreptiles, reptiles2you ect you get a small a discount on shipping, if you ship thru fedex as a verified shipper than depending on how long you have been verified and how often you ship your cost can be higher or lower. Some companies, will add part of the cost into the price of the animal and then charge you a “discounted rate” on shipping. Other larger companies can just absorb that cost. But as a buyer you must also realize that the boxes, padding and bags are not free all of that cost the seller.
For me to ship from where i am at in north carolina to ship to the west coast it is over $90. So depending on where you are located also effects the cost on shipping, and don’t forget time of year is another issue.
A simple way to remedy to that is to ask the breeder for a shipping quote with a screen copy, keep in mind that shipping is dimensional not based on weight and SYR for example can be $30 more expensive than Ship your reptiles when getting a quote which in both cases is still cheaper than a direct quote from FedEx which some people may use if they are certified and do not wish to have a third party involved.
Also keep in mind that this is just shipping it does not include gas to and from the hub (not everyone lives within a vicinity of a hub) and or packaging which is about another $5
For years I lost money on shipping offering flat rate about $15 to $30 per package now I provide an exact quote (with screen copy) round it down and absorb gas to and from the hub and packaging. So I still lose money but not as much.
Excellent points. When I was a new seller, I provided prospective buyers shipping quotes from SYR because they were well known and I thought it would help me look more professional. I quickly figured out that SYR is the most expensive option and I stopped unless a buyer specifically asked for them.
$80 to ship a hatchling is pretty standard. If a heat pack is needed, it increases the minimum size of the box. Every one of my customers gets a hardcopy personalized invoice and a couple of stickers. The box, foam, bag, zip tie, etc. and 30-some mile round trip to the hub is not free. There are costs incurred to ship the animal and I’d rather get ghosted than be expected to take a 50% haircut on shipping every single time. If the animal doesn’t sell online, I’ll just bring it to the next show.
We’ve thought about including shipping price in the “total price” by which it gets sorted, but of course that depends on where it’s shipped, and some buyers can do local pickup. This does allow sellers to push a relatively small amount (depending on what you are buying) from the item cost into the shipping cost, maybe $30-40. Of course this only helps if the user is sorting by lowest price, and there are many other ways to sort. It’s a tough problem to address.
There’s an opposite strategy which is legitimate. Buyers HATE to pay high shipping, because it feels like wasted money. So a seller can ship at a loss, and raise the item price a little. Buyers love seeing FREE SHIPPING. So I wouldn’t say that those who jack the shipping price up to advertise a lower price necessarily win.
Wow, there’s a lot more that goes into shipping than I had considered, thank you for the explanations. I didn’t realize there was more than one shipping option and the different prices they entailed, I (incorrectly) assumed that it was as simple as USPS shipping with dimensions and weight being the main factors. I also failed to consider that the seller may not live near a FedEx hub. I appreciate the breakdown of why shipping prices are the way they are
I never contact without the intent to buy. I am ready to purchase at time of contact. I feel its just wasted time on my part and the sellers to just ask questions. I have said this before, by the time I contact seller I have done everything I need to do.
I have had the exact opposite problem on this site so far, I messaged 2 separate breeders about purchasing a snake and neither of them have responded to me.
Perhaps there was something that made the buyer uncomfortable. People are sending alot of money sometimes for a critter, and if something doesn’t feel right, they shouldn’t. It’s not the end of the world. There is alot worse things that can happen. If that person doesn’t buy your critter and if you are a reputable breeder, you have nothing to lose sleep over. Someone else will purchase what you have to sell for sure.
I think it’s more the fact of the lack of common courtesy with a response of what their thinking. If they do not want the animal any more then properly communicate and don’t make the seller hold the animal for you, possibly bypassing other prospective buyers, because something may have “rubbed” you the wrong way or your having issues with funds. The issue with “ghosting” all of a sudden is what is primarily being talked about above.
I deal with a similar phenomenon is a very different industry and have discovered that some ‘tire kickers’ do it for the fantasy. For whatever reason they can’t actually buy the snake but they enjoy the fantasy of pretending they could. And going through all the motions (right up until the actual buying part) enrich and extend the fantasy. I have few suspicions on why they never send a message saying they’re no longer interested; it would abruptly break the fantasy, whereas if they never respond they can allow it to end more gently in lost interest; it might make them acknowledge to themselves that they did a inconsiderate and self centered thing by wasting someone’s time, ignoring things is much more comfortable than critical self reflection; or they might fear being ‘found out’, they project that the seller will somehow know that they never intended to purchase the animal and will get upset which will force them to do the unpleasant self reflection.
Sorry, that turned into much more of a thesis than I planned but it is something I find fascinating.
I actually think this is one of the best responses to this thread. Really makes a lot of sense especially when I have dealt with it whenever I used to sell locally. I had someone from a neighboring city interested in one of my corn snakes and they communicated up until the very last point where I agreed to meet them at a local spot to do the transaction and i waited 20 minutes and they never showed or responded.
Agreed. One of the best responses on the thread. What’s presented here is a little darker than what is usually discussed but I’m glad someone said it. When we get inquiries here, we have no idea who is on the other end. I think this is more common than we think.
I’ve also developed a theory on this but it pertains more to Facebook sales before the time when you had to sell animals in stealth mode. I think we would all agree that smartphones have changed almost every aspect of our lives. But what I’ve noticed is that sometimes people who have no intention of buying a snake use the smartphone as a tool to direct attention to themselves. Let me explain:
Ghost Buyer joins an FB group called “Ball Python Lovers.” Ghost Buyer makes a post that says “ISO female albino. cash in hand.”
Over the next hour, a dozen breeders send Ghost Buyer a PM offering female albinos. Ghost Buyer never intends to buy a snake, but in the 5 seconds it took to make that post, they received an hour of PMs.
If Ghost Buyer is stuck at home with kids, locked down from COVID, suffering from some life misfortune, bored, inebriated, or whatever, they were able to use their device to turn the attention on them. A few posts in a few groups and they are contacted by dozens of people all day long. And presumably all of these people are really nice…because they want to make the sale.
I have seen this over and over. I also stopped responding to these types of posts a long time ago.
I actually responded to a post last night, since I was selling my banana het pied male. I was also offering info on my mystic babies I have available.
This lady had the nerve to tell me that my prices were “stupid” and it came down to it being because she had scored an adult albino for $50 before. She had no idea that they normally would go for way more.
I was very upset, but once I realized she just didn’t know any better, I calmed down and we started chatting about other snake-related things.
I think a lot of the posts in this thread are correct, but I think one thing that hasn’t been mentioned yet is that some people are afraid of any sort of confrontation. So they see a snake they might like, they inquire, and then for whatever reason, be it price, or whatever, they change their mind but don’t know how to say “Actually, I’ll pass, thanks.” So the conversation just continues until they decide to stop responding, which is sometimes all the way to the payment stage.
@macabremoose That is also true. I know there was a time I’d probably be that person, but I’ve learned to get past that fear and have realized that most people selling would prefer I tell them I’m no longer interested/can’t make the purchase at the given time.
Sort of related, I’ve also found that even if I can’t afford the snake up front, if I ask about a payment plan and give them the terms I’m able to work with (I usually do 50% down and the rest paid within 30 days) they’ve always been willing to work with me on it. I’ve gotten most of my higher-end snakes this way.
Another great point here. The last show I vended (before the coronapocalypse) I had a lady get extremely upset because I would not come down low enough on a price. Instead of just talking to me about it, she went and cried to another vendor about it and actually got him to come over to my table and feed me some BS line about how they were friends and I should give her the steep discount.
I didn’t know this other vendor. I found it weird and mildly insulting. But yeah, this lady did not want to pay full price for a snake but she didn’t want any confrontation either.
I’m a small time breeder but I got plenty of these stories
I’m a new hobbyist and purchaser. I also have anxiety, so I already don’t like interacting with people. I don’t want to come off as annoying, rude nor as unknowledgeable (I did my research, but I’m no expert) when inquiring about a snake. I was afraid if sellers knew I was new and asked to many questions they may refuse to sell. I keep my messages short, I don’t ask many questions, I didn’t ask for additional pics, ECT. I paid as immediate as possible and didn’t even try negotiating until my last purchase. If I have to ask a lot of questions, I don’t inquire. (Off topic, please, please put as much info in as you can. I know some of you have a lot of snakes listed and to list. I understand you have lives and put a lot of time and effort into your hobby/business. But, please, put the weight in the listing, put a hatch date or at least the year, make note of what it’s diet is, if it eats well and it’d be nice to know the snakes temperament but not 100% necessary. I think if the info is already there, not much needs to be asked.)
Shipping is a bit of a deal breaker for me. If it’s crazy, I’ll skip it. I do wish the shipping was included in the price. As was mentioned, everyone loves seeing free shipping. I did, out of feeling obligated, buy a snake which the shipping a bit high. It was $35-40 more than the three snakes coming the farthest; west coast to the east coast.
That being said, so far everyone has been great. I did have a couple sellers ignore my inquiries and one closed my inquiry without replying and didn’t take the snakes down, either. I did have to ask all but one seller to hold my snakes for a week or two. My rack wasn’t finished but didn’t want to miss out on snakes I wanted. In the end, temps made everyone have to hold them anyways. Still, everyone was willing to oblige.
Now, I am from a generation where ghosting wasn’t a thing. I inquired about one snake I decided didn’t work for my needs. I let the seller know with an apology and a thank you - I thank everyone for their time! I also believe the fantasy buyers are a product of the younger generation. I don’t think many know what common courtesy is, or since they are behind a screen and keyboard, they don’t care. There is no consequence. You can report them, but they can just make new accounts or are already on a burner account. It’s not like back when your reputation as a buyer stuck with you and was important. Wrong doings had an impact on your future dealings. I’m not looking forward to being on the sellers side of the hobby, for sure.
It’s good to see the other side of the story from the buyers perspective from someone such as yourself so thank you for sharing. I am however very interested to know the percentage of people who purchase off of MM strictly for a pet and those who buy to help push along their collection. I think people looking for a first time pet or a pet in general are more inclined to ghost just because they aren’t sure of how to go about it like you said. I think a hobbyist is more confident with purchasing and just the process as a whole so they are less likely to ghost.
