Handling a Heated Thread?

[t_h_wyman]

@rmleone

And to start with "with all due respect " is actually a passive aggressive statement where you are trying to appear “diplomatic” but serving it up with your arrogance. I am quite well aware of what words mean and imply and that statement is not remotely close to being respectful

While it can, and often is, used in a passive aggressive manner, it is also used as a means of opening a dialogue of disagreement while still openly acknowledging respect toward the person you are disagreeing with. And that was the manner in which I was using it and I will thank you to not assume or assign malintent to my words

I do hold respect to those that currently serve. I do respect to those that have served.

And, like it or not, even though I disagree with your view on the matter and also do not appreciate your seemingly intentional disregard for the fact that I pointedly stated I was not making an accusation toward you but was speaking broadly, I do respect your contribution to this conversation
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@rmleone

Now if you want an echo chamber fine ban me from speaking

@rmleone

So yall can delete, ban or whatever to me

@rmleone

Im sure my reply will get deleted

No one said anything about banning you or deleting you, please refrain from making such accusations
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@rmleone

I believe you misunderstand what i am saying, its ok many people do because i have a mind on a different level than most people

And I can say the same of you on the prior and the same of myself of the latter
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@rmleone

but i am far from stupid

I never once accused you of being stupid nor do I believe you are stupid. Again, please refrain from making these baseless accusations of me
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@rmleone

The only time a "ban hammer " should be pulled out is if the comments of someone were so egregiously offensive that it leads to some real disharmony as it devolves into cussing or threats so on and so forth

And I fully agree with you and I said as much.

However, the point I was making and will make again is that, in my personal experience, 99% of the time the individuals that are behaving this way are using the first amendment as justification for their actions and then then double down on it by screaming/whining about being censored when the “ban hammer” finally is dropped on them
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@rmleone

rights do trump feelings

Up to a point, yes. However, when you (to which I mean the royal ‘you’) click the ‘I AGREE’ button when signing up here you are openly and willingly agreeing to give up some degrees of said “rights”. One of the rights you are giving up is an acknowledgement that you are willingly agreeing to some level of censure as defined and enforced by the Admins/Mods of this site. If you do not like the idea of giving up that right then you do not have to join the forum. No one forced you to be here. So, if you then do go on to break a rule and are subsequently censured for it, you do not get to scream about your first amendment being violated because you voluntarily agreed to limit that right when you clicked ‘I AGREE’

Which again goes back to what I said above - While I respect your veteran status, I wholly disagree with you that someone’s first amendment right is being violated when they break a rule and end up getting censored here because in agreeing to the ToS, they have willingly and knowingly accepted a limitation of that right

[t_h_wyman]

@noodlehaus

If you’ve spent enough time on forums, you learn to spot users who want to be contentious. In an effort to be informative and correct inaccuracies, a staff member then engaged one-to-one with the contentious person, derailing the thread entirely while the two then went back and forth trying to prove who was right

I will openly own that I was engaged in the discourse there, but anyone that knows me knows that I have always taken a pretty personal hard-line stance against the perpetuation of misinformation. And once I engage at a “forum participant” level, because I can no longer be viewed as impartial, I abrogate my Mod duties and trust the rest of my team to pick up my slack.

I also took a position like Matt

@owalreptiles

there has been many times I’ve thought “this kind of rides the line of rule breaking, but no ones reported so I guess I’ll let it slide”

Once we did receive an official flag on the thread, I basically went dark on it because any further actions I took would have been suspect
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@noodlehaus

I’ve seen enough in my time here to start posting less due to certain users and threads becoming hostile/off topic

I hate hearing this because I have appreciated your contributions to many threads here.

[noodlehaus]

I fully understand why you took the stance you did, and I truly appreciate you using your incredible knowledge base to further this community.

What I am taking from this thread is that it also falls on us as users to be more proactive in flagging things if we believe they are against the rules, so that you and the rest of the staff can weigh in as to whether or not anything needs to be done in regards to specific incidents. This is why I do keep coming back and interacting, because there’s always more to learn and if it takes being a little more proactive on a personal level, I’m willing to put in that effort, even if in the end it’s deemed to be a non-issue.

[t_h_wyman]

@noodlehaus

What I am taking from this thread is that it also falls on us as users to be more proactive in flagging things if we believe they are against the rules, so that you and the rest of the staff can weigh in as to whether or not anything needs to be done in regards to specific incidents

As much as I dread the days where I log on and find a half dozen flags that need to be reviewed, I also greatly appreciate knowing that I do not have to read through every thread here because the users are pulling us in where they feel our attention is needed.

[eaglereptiles]

@rmleone

you absolutely do not have the right to be safe from being offended.

Human rights or not, the staff here will do their best to stop people from being offended by others, including censoring. On a forum based around animals, there isn’t really much room to offend someone without trying or it being taken in the wrong context.

@noodlehaus

To be quite honest, I actually believe moderating is too lax here.

we can’t win
I’ve got Kaiser Chiefs playing in my head now!

I think Hilary hit the nail on the head

@chesterhf

no matter what there are going to be individuals who are unhappy and disagree with the moderation style. If you keep things strict, on-topic and regularly remove posts and/or users that seem to violate, people start to freak out about “censorship”. If you let things wander a bit, topics will occasionally derail from their original purpose

I need to point out that while staff are indeed staff members, they are also members of the forum FIRST and can take part in topics as a normal user and debate with others, but because they are staff it makes it all the more difficult to moderate. As we have seen in the past, some perceive this as mods abusing their positions to create an “echo chamber”, if you will.

@noodlehaus

What I am taking from this thread is that it also falls on us as users to be more proactive in flagging things if we believe they are against the rules

Exactly. This is YOUR community. Flag what you don’t want to see and what you do

@owalreptiles

many times I’ve thought “this kind of rides the line of rule breaking, but no ones reported so I guess I’ll let it slide”

Matt makes an extremely valid point here that aligns with this whole thread. We want to moderate as little as possible, people find it more annoying than not when they see their post has been removed/edited.

Even more so, we don’t want to moderate based on our own opinions/beliefs.

Unless it is outright offensive, dangerous or a direct violation of the rules, then chances are we will look away unless it is flagged.

[lizardkid]

Just making sure, I haven’t made any1 angry right this was just a thought

[lizardkid]

@eaglereptiles

We can still go back and review it and clean it up… but it may be best to start a new topic on the same original discussion.

Oh I didn’t know that you could do that, I think I just will do a version 2, thanks!
(I swear you are some of the greatest admins u have every seen, keep up the good work guys you are doing great!!!

[rmleone]

Just make a user block button for users who do not wish to see content from X person, its not thst hard to do. I play some app games and they all had a block botton, it doesn’t censor or remove or delete anyone or what they say, it simply allows for a more sensitive person to ignore said content they do not wish to see, it also makes your moderation eadier because people can simply block users they do not agree with etc.

Im not for censorship because when does it stop? When you change the goal posts in the “game” you get to make up the rules as you go along. I will always stand up for freedom regardless.

[nswilkerson1]

You’re missing the point though. This forum has rules, and you have to agree to these said rules when you make an account. That means you are agreeing to some level of censorship. It shouldn’t have to be on an individual to block someone so they don’t have to see it. If it violates the terms of service, it needs to be dealt with.

[scissortailscales]

@rmleone

Just make a user block button for users who do not wish to see content from X person

While it is not technically called a block button, the functionality that it sounds to me like you are seeking is already an existing feature on the forum.

@eaglereptiles

As a user you can mute and ignore another user from your preferences.

Mute = Suppress all notifications and PMs from these users.

Ignore = Suppress all posts, notifications, and PMs from these users.

To toggle a specific user to muted or ignored, visit their profile and adjust the the drop down that regularly reads “normal” (located next to the option to message a user) to the desired status.

[caron]

@chesterhf @noodlehaus @lizardkid @rmleone @nswilkerson1 @eaglereptiles @t_h_wyman
and anyone else I might have missed, I have only been involved in this wonderful forum for a short period of time and I feel I have made some friends who share the same love of reptiles that I have. This is the only social media I participate in. IMO the knowledge, experience and expertise here is overflowing and there is so much to be learned here and so much to be shared here.

But as for me, there is only One, Whose Opinion of me and where I stand, I am concerned with. If we, as Americans, would replace the first 2 Amendments with the first 2 Commandments, and live accordingly, there be no strife anywhere……

[spottedbull]

As a moderator on another, much smaller reptile forum, I’d like to throw my hat into this ring.

As stated, we all agreed to a set of rules. Im fairly certain that every phone, tablet, computer etc ALL have a back button. If there is some type of thread that you dont like, or offends you, flag that and push the BACK BUTTON. Just stop reading it. There are literally thousands of posts on this forum. Read something else.

Seems kinda simple.

[lizardkid]

@rmleone

And to start with "with all due respect " is actually a passive aggressive statement where you are trying to appear “diplomatic” but serving it up with your arrogance.

ok I got problems with this statement, personally (don’t know about anyone else) but I use it as a way to be polite, it is implying you have no intent to be rude, so I find that you think that saying “with all due respect” is passive aggressive confuses me. personally, I don’t use it to be diplomatic I say it to imply, “hey I have no intent to offend you don’t get mad.” I also genuinely use it also because I think it makes me sound smart lol!

[lizardkid]

@noodlehaus

wanted information and other people derailed the topic to the point of the thread being closed. This thread again is headed that way, and it’s getting old.

oh, I fully agree, I find it gets old EXTREMLY fast, and another reason I even decided to post about it is that it was my most “viral” thread with 1000 views and 79 posts.

[noodlehaus]

I think for next time, if you’ve started a thread and you see someone taking it too far off topic, or being really aggressive in their replies, flag it. The guidelines are quite clear, so I guess the best to be done now is to re-read and refresh our understanding of them, and put it to use.

I’m sorry your threads ended up contentious, you ask very good questions and please don’t worry, you haven’t upset anyone, I don’t believe. As someone coming to this forum after having spent years on highly trafficked and much more discordant forums, it can be a little jarring to get used to the moderation style here. I hope you keep making inquisitive threads, I love learning new things because someone like you asks a question I might not have thought to ask.

[ashleyraeanne]

Unfortunately whenever personal beliefs like politics or religion are brought into discussions, things can derail and get ugly pretty fast. This is why many forums and discord servers I have modded for always have rules against the mention of either. And as @armiyana has stated, not everyone is from the USA. I think sometimes people in the states forget not everyone in the world has the same laws as here. And not everyone is from here.

[vsnutz]

I think the main thing is everyone seems to forget about the consequences. You can say whatever you want, but don’t get upset when you get blocked. The short of it is there are rules set in place to try and keep everything civil because it should about the hobby(some people’s livelihood) we love, and people wanting to share knowledge. I think most everyone on this forum is pretty good about it, and answering and helping out any way they can.

[rmleone]

I getcha, im only allowed to post as yall dictate me to, so perhaps you should right my posts.

I state what im passionate about but editorializing my post removes the context of my post. It states my opinion does not matter unless i have your opinion.

Me stating that i do not believe in censorship and for a very good reason i push back because it’s not just here but irl. Im told how to think, what to say and what to do. The funny thing about freedom is one you lose you never get it back, and everyone is more than willing to throw away their god given right to freedom, thats a human right.

Censorship starts out innocuous and slow, big deal its just a little rule, then it takes a step further and further until you are no longer able to be an individual and doing so may get you imprisoned or worse perhaps you lose your life. I been to places where people are not free, some places will kill you for getting an education.

Regardless of what “was agreed to” you are missing the entire point of what i am saying. I am allowed to disagree it’s what keeps ideas from becoming only 1 point of view.

Im sorry that some don’t or wont understand where i am coming as me being a veteran. I love my country and my constitution and trust me you don’t want real oppression.

Atrocities occurs because its in the name of “the greater good” if nobody stands up and remains silent then those evils can take root.

I will fight giving my life to defend peoples freedoms it sad none of you are willing to do the same for me.

And yes “with all due respect” is rarely a matter of respect as its usually followed up with some insult etc, much like a back handed compliment is never actually a compliment.you may say that your intent was sincere that may be true or it could be that i called it out that then you make it appear as “respect”

This was a thread that was about blocking users and i stated my opposition to it, but i see now that the only response allowed is of agreement.

I shall endeavor to post only what you want me to post. It has to always be in agreement of others.

This is the 10th man rule, i will always be the 10th man( woman)

Let’s first outline again what the Tenth Man Rule says: In a group of ten, everyone is given the same information. If nine group members come to the same conclusion, the tenth person becomes the devil’s advocate. The tenth person is now responsible for disproving the others.

This is how i feel.

[armiyana]

This may just not be the place for you to work out your personal feelings

In the last few weeks I’ve seen you mention being a veteran and having disabilities multiple times. There is nothing wrong with either but I feel like whenever something here happens that you feel slights you, you use that as a crutch.
I am not a therapist or medical professional by any means. I am stating my own observations. But if things here DO affect you that much and make you that reactive, perhaps you should look at taking a step back and reevaluate things or if you are already seeking advice elsewhere with someone you trust, maybe ask them for another view.

[noodlehaus]

The only thing suggested in this thread was banning individuals from replying to specific threads on the basis of rule violations. Not the whole forum, not “censoring” anyone, just disallowing them from posting in one thread.

This isn’t about you, yet here you are yelling it is. What does your status as a veteran have to do with blocking an individual from replying to a thread? How is it that you actually somehow believe that banning a single user from replying to a single thread on a tiny hobby forum is censorship that is going to lead to the downfall of democracy, imprisonment, or death? Blocking users is a basic feature on any forum and has been as long as I’ve ever been on them.

I’m with @armiyana on this. You’ve seemingly got some things you need to work through and this isn’t the venue for it. You’re not the only veteran here, yet you are the only one who constantly brings it up and demands respect for your service, all while being aggressive and belittling others over differing opinions. As someone who is Autistic, I understand, to some degree, the complexities of neuro issues. Sometimes you have to take a step back and look at things from the view of others, and whether or not the responses you’re having are truly appropriate to subject matter at hand. It’s not healthy for anyone to get so worked up over a simple hobbyist forum, I’ve had to confront that realization myself.