If you have potentially sick animals, the last thing you want is a loose substrate. Paper towels are the best thing to monitor them on and it doesn’t risk impaction like bioactive would. Leos also do not need the constant humidity bioactive would bring.
I wasn’t saying now obviously!
I meant long run. And not even just with these, with any Leo’s.
Fat tails need higher humidity and I mist and keep that up fine.
They also chase food and no Impaction etc ever has happened.
I only use a bowl for the meal worms. Crickets etc they chase themselves.
I used to have my fatty in a rack and kept heat up brilliantly, even being bio
I’d keep babies on towels at first though for sure. I’ve not had any babies yet, but would be on towel so I can monitor.
Pictus are awesome’
Just going back to the actual topic, I’ve been speaking to the previous owner and she said they originally come from a reputable breeder, but then said she might have put the female with a mack snow is it possible to have retained sperm from a male before the pairing to the male same as her?
One of my females just laid her first egg…I’ve never had an egg so small lol
They can hold sperm yes. Might make more sense
Oh congrats! Look forward to seeing the little one! I think they’re brilliant
Follow me on Instagram, I post regularly on there
So this hatchling could either be a normal or a white and yellow?
My vote is normal. The pattern is wrong for eclipse, but your photos of the eyes are a little too blurry to be definitive with that ID.
Someone above suggested the parents might be two lines of albinos. While that is a possibility, they both do look like Bell albinos to me. Another option is that the female was paired with another male and the baby is a result of that pairing, not from the albino male you received. Considering the person you received them from gave them to you in such poor condition, poor record keeping with pairings/cohousing is a distinct probability.
That said, with such poor body condition it’s possible the coloration isn’t true on those albinos, making them have that darker, high contrast Bell look to them. I really do think they’re both Bell’s though, if I hadn’t seen that baby I wouldn’t have questioned their identity.
What makes you think they’re bell albinos? They aren’t supposed to be different visually but is there a way that you can tell?
I gotta be honest, it’s more of a general gestalt thing. I’ve seen hundreds of each of the albino strains and just have a good mental image for each of them. Rainwater/Trempers can be somewhat difficult, but Bells are relatively easy to separate out. In general, what I look for in Bells is greater contrast between the light and dark parts of the pattern, the splotches of dark tend to be thinner than in Trempers, and they don’t tend to be as pale as most Rainwaters.
Also, the eyes are somewhat different, Bells tend to have a deeper saturation of pink than Trempers and Rainwaters, which tend to be more pale. Again, this is a gradient thing, with easy-to-ID Bells on one side and clear Trempers or Rainwaters on the other extreme. There is a lot of gray area between them, depending upon the incubation temperature (which will make Trempers and Rainwaters darken to near Bell saturation), health of the animal (which can also darken colors when they’re unhealthy, such as OP’s), and age/breeding status (albinos will darken with age and females especially darken after breeding).
All of that said, just eyeballing those adults put them squarely in the Bell side of my mind’s eye. Is it possible one or both aren’t Bells? Sure. But like I said before, if OP hadn’t posted that non-albino baby I really wouldn’t be questioning their IDs as Bells. I really do think this is retained sperm from another pairing with that female, but unless the OP try proving them out in the future when they’re healthier, they’ll never really know for sure.
I’ve been repeatedly tagged but the convo is super long and I only have time to skim through the whole thing. I apologize if I repeat things that have already been said or irritate anyone, I’m just trying to help and not trying to force my opinion on anyone.
For IDs, based on the uncertain parentage and sketchy seller (no one should sell animals in that shape), there is no way to definitively know their genetics, though they are het for some form of albino. I’ve said this many times- you cannot distinguish the 3 forms of albino from each other visually, especially in sick animals that already look abnormal. I would not breed any of the adults again, as the seller has proven to be unreliable & thus you will only ever get Pet-Only offspring.
Phenotypically they are both either Aberrant Normals or Aberrant W&Ys, I do not know how to recognize W&Y. I do not see any ocular mutations but I could be wrong. Their phenotypic description will change as they age. Because leopard gecko patterns change so drastically from hatching to adulthood, there’s not much point in attaching labels (with a few exceptions not applicable here), especially before their first shed.
Do not breed these animals, if you sell, sell as Pet Only. Do not sell until you know what is killing the adult male. As others have mentioned, handle him last of all your reptiles, use separate equipment, do a LOT of hand washing.
While the adult male & female not pictured aren’t eating, you need to syringe-feed them to prevent him from dying. Your vet should be able to sell you some EmerAid for carnivores or Carnivore Care from Oxbow & dispense you some oral syringes. If your vet does not carry them, you can make a slurry from Repashy’s Grub Pie. My gecko Binky didn’t eat on her own for something like 7 months, and she’s fine now because I made sure she ate during her convalescence. Also offer water via syringe.
Your vet should be able to do a vent wash to try and get a fecal sample. (Do not try it yourself.) They should also be able to do radiographs to look for impactions, and blood work (drawn from a sedated gecko for safety) to check for infection and organ failure. They should also start considering testing for diseases that wipe out entire reptile collections. Looking at the male, it’s obvious that something is very wrong with him, and if the non-pictured female is worth, she’s presumably very close to death, so it’s time to commit to advanced diagnostics for the sake of the rest of your collection. If one of them passes, make sure you put it in multiple bags & store the body in the refrigerator until you can take it in for a necropsy (must include histopath). This has to happen within about 36 hours of death, 48 at a stretch. The same for a fecal sample- immediately remove, multiple small/sealed bags (don’t want to dehydrate), refrigerate (nvever freeze), and must go to vet within 48 hours.
In terms of general care recommendations, I always always always say paper towel is the best substrate for leos. I am not aware of long-lasting sperm retention besides the usual storage within a single season (like ~7 months, very rough guesstimate). The female is very skinny and definitely dehydrated, but I don’t feel she is as near-death as other people do. Though she definitely should have powdered supplements on her food (as all leos should, but especially laying females & babies) if she is still laying.
I’m sorry my leo caresheet isn’t finished yet, I’ve been dealing with health issues. I will try and hurry myself up a bit, so that I can just link to it in the future.
If your vet is not a reptile specialist, then make sure you switch to a true herp vet. I am a dog/cat vet & I know for a fact that no dog/cat GP vet has the experience you need right now.