Mocha x Phantom

Happy to Share this here.
mocha is 100% het pied (or as other said visual het pied) x Phantom
i’m quite confused on this 2 as i’m expecting whites for my Leche Project, is it the normal color for hatchling? looks like purple passion.


this 2nd photo is the train tracks (het pied markers)
whatch think guys? :thinking::thinking::thinking:

i’m so so so excited for this new project.

7 Likes

based on what i’ve seen, it will turn to white… :heart_eyes:
ctto

6 Likes

They for sure look like purple passions! But yours whites definitely look mocha phantom! That’s odd… Did you use multiple males? Was the phantom the male or female?

1 Like

mocha male x phantom female both single gene
mocha is a het pied

1 Like

Are the two purples female?

1 Like

havent check the gender yet. hoping to be a female, and i’m so lucky that i back read my convo with the seller as the male (mocha is 100% het pied 66% het albino) and it all pass down to this clutches as 66% for pied and 33% for albino. so another project to look around when they’re ready! :heart_eyes::heart_eyes::heart_eyes:

1 Like

If they are both female which I suspect they are. I would say you have a split partho clutch. Which would also mean they wouldn’t be good for breeding unfortunately.

2 Likes

split parthogenesis clutch? means?

1 Like



4 Likes

Half the clutch was by parthenogenesis (the mother self fertilized) and the other half was normal fertilization.

2 Likes

so it means she fertilised 2 copy of her self? means
she brought out super phantom?

1 Like

Yes it means she submitted two copies of her selves

codominant genes with parthenogenesis you can get the super form from a animal with a single copy.

2 Likes

Additional animals from parthenogenesis that are normally sexual produced have a greater chance of having low fertility, and low rate if survival.

1 Like

Can you post pictures of your male. My bet would be that it was an incorrectly IDd as a mocha. I have never heard of a partho clutch that resulted in a super of the mother but I have hatched dozens of BELs in every combination and those sadly aren’t the mocha phantoms you wanted.

Also meant to add that they don’t look like super phantoms either but I’ll be curious if they’re both females. Super phantoms are typically much darker and not as reduced pattern



as the one is. I really suspect purple passion/potion from your male. I just hatched this clutch and you can see how much darker the 2 supers are compared to the purple passions (one being similar reduced pattern)

1 Like

Considering that most cases of pathogenesis in ball pythons seem to occur by terminal fusion automixis resulting in homozygous offpspring that are “half clones” of the mother, then you would expect partho clutches to look exactly like a super version of the mother.

New insights on facultative parthenogenesis in pythons

3 Likes

Ha yeah I realized after I sent that I was thinking of something else. That’s what I get for multitasking. I still don’t think they look like most super phantoms though. Im curious what the male looks like.

What would you say they look like? And what other explanation would you have?

2 Likes

I agree with @hannahl that these do not appear to be SuperPhantoms.

I would like to see both parents.

2 Likes

I agree they are lighter but the other hatchling looks very much mocha.

1 Like