Also Super Spotnose has a wobble - to differing extents, but always present in my experience.
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I remember Harlan made the Champagne Sable and those had failure to thrive issues. Cannot recall if they had wobble issues
Might also want to add under the Pied Lesser that all Pied BluELs have microphthalmia
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spotnose champagne also have a wobble from the few that we have produced.
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Hi can i just claify is that with spotnose blackhead ?
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I’m assuming its still more of a wobble than either gene by itself?
I think i remember harlan’s now that you mention it. I think it be safe to assume they would have a wobble issue. I’ve havn’t looked at this one too much, what combos actually get the small eyes? like are we saying super mojave pied do, or super mystic pieds do, or what are we actually calling BEL in this case?
I’m assuming its still more of a wobble than either gene by itself?
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spotnose by itself has no wobble that i have noticed, but when mixed with champagne it is very noticable. champagne however i have seen some wobble.
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spotnose I haven’t seen, but power ball yes. Champagne tho I have definitely seen wobble, more like a woma severity not like a spider from what ive seen. Still makes sense for it to increase when combining them
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To date, every instance of any superform in the group, when combined with homozygous Pied, has resulted in microphthalmia - SuperLesser, Mystic Potion, SuperPhantom, Lesser/Mojave… The only one I have not seen is a Daddy-type or a SuperDaddy
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I gotta figure out how to word this for the list when i got more than a few spare minutes lol.
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I would just word it the way I did in my earlier post: “All Pied BluEL combos” Even if the eventual Daddy-types and SuperDaddy do not show the phenotype it is probably better to err on the side of caution in terms of warning info
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Does microphthalmia cause any issues beyond just having small eyes?
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Not that I am aware of. Which is to say no one has said anything publicly to indicate it might. That said, we all know how secretive the community can be when it comes to “issues” so it is theoretically possible people are silently sitting on their observations…
Worse case scenario is that the animals are blind but we have all seen eye-less balls that have grown to adult size and to all appearances seem to thrive so not sure blindness would be a major issue.
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I’ve not seen Super Cypress make a list but it’s my understanding at least some of them have a slight wobble. Here’s a post from Robinson’s Royal Pythons where they confirm it in some of the animals they produced (https://www.facebook.com/RobinsonsRoyalPythons/posts/round-2-super-cypressweve-been-working-to-this-point-for-several-years-now-and-i/789786887829603/).
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I spoke with both (each independent of the other) Ryan and Ian at Outback about this and both of them said that they had seen this early in the project because “their breedings looked like a Kentucky Derby horse’s” or “their family tree was like that of an Alabama hillbilly.” But they each followed up that as they began working with outcrossed animals they did not see the issue as much.
I do not know RRP but from what I remember of their post they were pretty early adopters of the project and I would suspect that the male and female they paired were potentially pretty closely related so that might have something to do with what they saw.
I also have not heard it mentioned by other people who have more recently produced supers.
Not saying there is no issue, just that it might be worthwhile to withhold judgment until there is a bit more data.
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The list has been updated here to reflect the Spotnose x Spider and other pairings but the website has not been updated and people are still sharing the old list. I posted a sceenshot of this but would be cool to update the list on the OWAL site as well. Thank you!
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I don’t think that “All Pied BluEL combos” is inaccurate, even if Daddy types and/or Super Daddy don’t show the phenotype (which I would expect to be the case with Super Daddy, even if it’s still exhibited in ALS Daddy combos). While it’s at the same locus, I wouldn’t consider Daddy (or Super Daddy) Pied a BluEL combo anyway, since it isn’t blue eyed or leucistic in het or hom phenotype. My personal belief is that Daddy is essentially Normal (since even the homozygous phenotype is within the normal range of pattern and colour for the species), but has a lower share of the dominance than other normal alleles at that locus. Which would explain why the phenotype of a compound heterozygous with one of the BEL complex morphs, is lighter and brighter, closer to the leucistic homozygous appearance.
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It will be updated when I get some time. Working 12 hours 7 days a week with scattered overtime. I still need to get my software setup again for editing the website on the new computer.
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quick question when people say bh masks the spider wobble does it eliminate it completely or does it just make it less noticeable?
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Far as I know it eliminates the wobble. Also a black head spider doesn’t even resemble a spider.
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In the combo there is no presentation of the wobble that has been publicly reported, take that as you will LOL
One thing that I believe that needs repeating here is that this is not a “cure” for wobble. If you breed the BH/Spider combo out all the Spiders from it will have wobble.
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