Morph Issues

Morph Issues

This is a list of all the morphs and combos that have known issues associated with them. Feel free to reply with updates to this list.

Last Update: May 10,2019

Morph Issue
Spider Wobble
Woma Wobble
Hidden Gene Woma Wobble
Champagne Wobble
Super Sable Wobble
Powerball Wobble
Spotnose x Champagne Wobble
Black Head x Spider Masks the Spider’s wobble
Sable x Spider Difficult to hatch, severe wobble
Sable x Champagne Difficult to hatch, severe wobble
Champagne x Hidden Gene Woma Severe wobble
Spotnose x Champagne Severe wobble
Spider x Spotnose Severe wobble
Champagne x Spider Lethal
Pearl Normally Lethal
Super Champagne Lethal
Super Spider Lethal
Desert Female fertility issues
Caramel Albino Kinking and female sub-fertility
Super Cinnamon/Super Black Pastel Duckbill & rare kinking
Super Lesser Platinum/Super Butter Bug eyes
Lesser Platinum x Piedbald Small Eyes
Any Super Combo from the BEL Complex x Piedbald Small Eyes
Banana/Coral Glow Gene resides on a sex chromosome
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@jkobylka Rumor is you might have some experience with spotnose spiders?

Question. With the known issues of breeding Spotnose in its heterozygous form with Spider is it safe to assume it is in the same complex? It just is never mentioned and probably should be on the list. Most I know that tried that pairing said they would never do it again due to severe debilitating wobble in offspring. Thank you!

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Didn’t know there was an issue, but its possible all wobble morphs are part of the same complex, you need to do breeding trails to find out. Someone would need to successfully raise a spider spotnose or blackhead spotnose (or any known morph in the complex + spotnose) and breed it to see if it throws all spotnose and other morph, no normals. No reproductions

Yea I get that but just suggest based on several top breeders experiences it should be added to the problem pairing lists. Justin Kobylka told me he would never do that pairing again and would not recommend it as well as others. Just tossing it out there thanks for all you do!

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Yes I’ve had a very poor experience… They were very neurologically very messed up. Far worse than any spider wobble I’ve seen.

Spotnose HGW also has a wobble, but to a much smaller extent from what I’ve seen.

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Also Super Spotnose has a wobble - to differing extents, but always present in my experience.

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I remember Harlan made the Champagne Sable and those had failure to thrive issues. Cannot recall if they had wobble issues

Might also want to add under the Pied Lesser that all Pied BluELs have microphthalmia

spotnose champagne also have a wobble from the few that we have produced.

Hi can i just claify is that with spotnose blackhead ?

I’m assuming its still more of a wobble than either gene by itself?

I think i remember harlan’s now that you mention it. I think it be safe to assume they would have a wobble issue. I’ve havn’t looked at this one too much, what combos actually get the small eyes? like are we saying super mojave pied do, or super mystic pieds do, or what are we actually calling BEL in this case?

I’m assuming its still more of a wobble than either gene by itself?

spotnose by itself has no wobble that i have noticed, but when mixed with champagne it is very noticable. champagne however i have seen some wobble.

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spotnose I haven’t seen, but power ball yes. Champagne tho I have definitely seen wobble, more like a woma severity not like a spider from what ive seen. Still makes sense for it to increase when combining them

To date, every instance of any superform in the group, when combined with homozygous Pied, has resulted in microphthalmia - SuperLesser, Mystic Potion, SuperPhantom, Lesser/Mojave… The only one I have not seen is a Daddy-type or a SuperDaddy

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I gotta figure out how to word this for the list when i got more than a few spare minutes lol.

I would just word it the way I did in my earlier post: “All Pied BluEL combos” Even if the eventual Daddy-types and SuperDaddy do not show the phenotype it is probably better to err on the side of caution in terms of warning info

Does microphthalmia cause any issues beyond just having small eyes?

Not that I am aware of. Which is to say no one has said anything publicly to indicate it might. That said, we all know how secretive the community can be when it comes to “issues” so it is theoretically possible people are silently sitting on their observations…

Worse case scenario is that the animals are blind but we have all seen eye-less balls that have grown to adult size and to all appearances seem to thrive so not sure blindness would be a major issue.

I’ve not seen Super Cypress make a list but it’s my understanding at least some of them have a slight wobble. Here’s a post from Robinson’s Royal Pythons where they confirm it in some of the animals they produced (https://www.facebook.com/RobinsonsRoyalPythons/posts/round-2-super-cypressweve-been-working-to-this-point-for-several-years-now-and-i/789786887829603/).

I spoke with both (each independent of the other) Ryan and Ian at Outback about this and both of them said that they had seen this early in the project because “their breedings looked like a Kentucky Derby horse’s” or “their family tree was like that of an Alabama hillbilly.” But they each followed up that as they began working with outcrossed animals they did not see the issue as much.

I do not know RRP but from what I remember of their post they were pretty early adopters of the project and I would suspect that the male and female they paired were potentially pretty closely related so that might have something to do with what they saw.

I also have not heard it mentioned by other people who have more recently produced supers.

Not saying there is no issue, just that it might be worthwhile to withhold judgment until there is a bit more data.

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