Recently purchased a sundragon boa at auction on MorphMarket. 2021 male.
Owner told me he had fed on a med/large frozen thawed rat 2 weeks prior to me receiving him
I recieved him 6 weeks ago and he has not eaten since I’ve got him. I started trying frozen thawed large brown rats first 2 tries then frozen thawed medium white rats then live medium white rat which I left in with him over night out of desperation. Then I tried live mouse today and still nothing.
When I hang food in front of him he smells it but will just get defensive with hissing and some striking.
Since I recieved him he has lost almost 10% of his body weight. 1400 grams on receiving 1270 grams as of today. His ribs are starting to become noticeable and he is looking very flat…
I’ve been in contact with the seller throughout but all they’ve done is tell me what type of setup he was in before and all that…
Now to the question…
What do I do if he doesn’t make it? I spent nearly 2k on this snake. Do I ask seller for a refund? I don’t feel like it’s my fault. I’ve had temps and humidity set up and he’s got a great setup for a cage.
I did thankfully send paypal goods and service but tbh I don’t know if they can help at this point seeing as it’s been so long…
First off…Mice with those eyes open or anything past a rat weanling should never be left alone with your animals. They can cause a lot of damage to your snake if not kill them. With medium rats you are VERY lucky.
After the seller told you what his setup was, did you replicate it?
What is the setup this animal is in and what are the temps?
At six weeks there’s really not a lot you can do. Most guarantees last 14 days at most. Typically, reptile breeders have a live arrival and maybe 24 hours once they arrive at your door, but every breeder is different.
You may be able to ask the breeder if they can offer any options.
As far as PayPal, you are still within the time to ask them about your options as well, but I don’t know what that could entail.
In my opinion, if the snake has been with you for six weeks, isn’t feeding despite offering various items, is losing notable weight/body condition, is acting “flat”, and you are sure your setup is adequate and temps/humidity are correct, I think you should be seeking veterinary advice/care for this snake. I suggest a fecal to check for parasites or a bacterial imbalance, maybe even a crypto test just in case. I’d also hope that this animal is quarantined if you have others. You may need to consider assist or force feeding the snake in the long run.
As for what to do if he doesn’t make it, I’m going to be pretty blunt here: This is why you need to read the MM default store policybefore making a purchase. Your feelings on who is at fault are irrelevant, the policy is clear that refusing to eat and failure to thrive are not covered.
You could ask the seller for a refund, but they have no obligation to provide it. As for PayPal, I’d tread carefully. I’m not sure if MorphMarket has any rules in regards to buyers and things like chargebacks (@eaglereptiles might be able to shed light on this) but I can guarantee it’s not going to endear you to the seller as they fulfilled their end of the deal and are not liable for an animal refusing to eat. Proceed at your own risk there.
Jess is absolutely correct that you need to see a vet to ensure your tail is covered if in fact the snake does perish. That’s a significant amount of weight loss for that period of time. If the animal is found by a professional to have parasites or a viral/bacterial infection or some other ailment it will help your case against the buyer should it come to a dispute.
Most of my boas only eat once a month and they don’t experience a fraction of that percentage of weight loss.
I know some people may have feelings about this but you can also try a live or frozen hamster and see if that gets him going.
@murdocksreptiles You can also try scenting a FT mouse or rat with soiled hamster or gerbil bedding that you can ask for at a pet store that sells them. The people at the pet store will look at you like you came from a UFO, especially if you show up with a baggie to put it in, but I tried it once with a BP that would not eat for me and it worked.
But tbh it does sound like you have a sick animal. I surely hope things work out for you.
Okay so coming back and re-reading this post again, I’ve noticed a few things that could be part of the issue aside the animal itself. First off is your feeding timeline:
You’ve had this animal six weeks, and in the above quoted section, you mention a bare minimum of six feeding attempts, or once a week since you received the animal. A new animal may need an acclimation period of 1-2 weeks before you attempt feeding. It’s possible you may be unnecessarily stressing the snake by continuing to offer food too often.
Also, @logar is indeed correct in asking what you mean by this:
This gives us nothing to go on. What are the temps and humidity, and how are they measured? What type of heating do you use? What size is the enclosure and what does it look like? More info can help pinpoint if it’s an issue with parameters that could be a quick fix.
How do you have this snake set up? If it’s vastly different from how he was living at his previous home, that could be part of the problem. It might be helpful to set him up the same way the seller had him set up, at least until he’s established and feeding in your care.
I’ll also echo the suggestion of a vet visit. The weight loss is a bit concerning, and I think it would be wise to at least rule out any medical issues as the root of the problem.
As for temps
Low 70ish
Anbient 70-75
High 90
Humidity 35-45
Measured with various thermometers from Hydro store and a laser thermometer
Cage 16x16x36 glass terrarium (larger then the sterilite tub rack the previous owner had him in.)
Heat source bean farm heating pads plugged into an old herpstat 1
Large water bowl
XL faux rock hide from thrive at petsmart
I will say previous owner said he had him on old newspapers I have him on Aspen. But people in here suggesting I replicate old setup, I have some cage liner paper, I’ll switch to that for now.
The ambient temp is low. That is one of the big factors I’m catching offhand.
It sounds counterintuitive, but saying your cage is larger than the tub and not changing back to a smaller space is probably one of the top reasons your snake is refusing food along with the temps.
A big space is more stressful when you get a new snake. A smaller quarantine space until the animals are comfortable and eating regularly. I would say 60-90 days personally. After that you should know the snake well enough to try a bigger space.
If there’s only one hide (you should really have 2) and if he isn’t using it for any reason that’s more stress. He’d be out in the open and cold. He’s not going to want to eat. And again, of things keep getting shoved at him or live rats are threatening him then he’ll keep stressing and refuse food.
A tub is a smaller space, enclosed, holds temps fairly well and just feels safer for some snakes. It’s not mean to put them in a smaller space for a bit to get them comfortable and eating.
I still recommend the vet to check for parasites, the weight loss is a concern. And stress can make them more easily susceptible to things like bacterial infections or parasites.
I’d double check with @ballornothing , but if memory is serving me right…
Ambient temps should be around 78-85.
Hot spot/basking spot of 90.
Cold side 75 at the lowest.
Hot side at 85
and @murdocksreptiles I kept my CA’s at 85 hot side……. This was in a Boaphile enclosure. If this boa is now being kept in a tub do you think 90 is too hot for the hot side…….?
The hot side should be 82-85 with a hot spot of 90. the coolest spot in the enclosure should be anywhere from 75-80. The humidity should be up closer to 60%. You need to copy the enclosure the breeder had him in. Clutter the tub up with fake plants, at least 2 hides, a large water bowl, and put it in a quiet, low traffic room of your house. I would also cover up the bin with a blanket or towel until he has had two consecutive meals. Then have the towel cover only 1/2 the tub for another 2 meals then you can take the towel off. I wouldn’t move him into his larger enclosure for at least 3 months.
I don’t give any of my boas a hotspot over 86*. I would try to keep the lower end of the tank around 78-80.
They don’t have control of their metabolic rate. You set that with your temperatures. Animals will use a hotter hot spot than they need, to the point of their own detriment. That’s why heat rocks burned so many animals. They don’t sense the heat that we provide them the way they would natural temps.
Running him on the hotter end is going to keep his metabolism cranking which is going to contribute to further weight loss.
If it were me, I’d grab an under tank heat pad and a snap top tote. Set the snake up in the tote with the thermostat set to 85*. Then I would cover it with a dark cover in a room that’s not busy and leave it completely alone for a couple days. No disturbances other an occasional peek to check that he’s ok.
It would help me to know where this boa is at health wise if I could see a picture of his body condition. A healthy boa is not round, they should be shaped like a loaf of bread with flat sides.
Thankyou to everyone who has commented. Sincerely… I love this community.
He visited vet today. They agreed he’s not looking great, they gave him antibiotics (reciept says 250mg/ml or 170mg/ml ceftazidime, I did not think to ask which dosage they gave) and sub q fluids. They also took a blood sample to send off for paneling that I should hear results Monday for.
To ballornothing I’ve uploaded some photos of him and the new temporary smaller enclosure I’ve made for him today. In a couple photos you may notice a buldge in his side that’s from the fluids he was given today by the vet. I’ve put him in the garage instead of the bedroom he was in to try to eliminate any unnecessary disturbances.
I’ve also gone ahead and listened to everyone about hot and cool spots and with his new temp enclosure will be shooting for slightly lower hot side and slightly warmer cool side.
