Norman Brumating (part two)

Colubrids Western Hognose
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He will probably eat better for you with an under tank heater, since eating as well as trying to brumate both are problems for him right now.

As far as being realistic, he is, after all, in a “cage”, so that kinda blows “realistic” out of the water. I will take eating regularly over realistic any day of the week. Hogs need a good amount heat 24/7, not the temperature that your room is.

Just sayin….

Edit to add: with your method of keeping you would be better off with something like a corn snake or even a king snake as they are a little more forgiving husbandry wise. but even they need some kind a constant heat source

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I keep my hognose in a tub and use a heat mat for him. I’ve never had anyone recommend I keep my heat on at night, in the wild their temperatures can drop a lot at night time. My hognose and corn snake both drop to around 18-20c (64-68f) at night, and I know keepers here who let theirs drop even lower without issue.

Personally I’m of the opinion that overhead heaters (specifically halogen or dhps) are always ideal, though not required. If you have especially deep substrate and it’s getting too cool at the bottom then either you need to add a heat mat but not necessarily replace the overhead heater, or insulate the enclosure better. The problem with heat mats is they don’t warm the air, only the surface, so if your room is cold then they have no choice but to sit on the mat to stay warm. The insulation issue is why I prefer wooden vivs over all other forms of housing, it’s much easier to maintain a good amient temperature.

Edit to add and clarify: Heat mats are great in some situations, specifically tubs, small well insulated enclosures, racks, and for low temp species. It looks like your hognose is in a setup that won’t do well with a heat mat. Its also a good idea to black out three walls of his enclosure with an insulating material.

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Not to be aggressive but I’m not trading snakes ???

And obviously he’s living in a tank but that doesn’t mean you can’t strive for some realism. I’m prepared to use uth but i was wondering if it’s necessary or if something like CHE would be a better option bc I already have a heat lamp and bulbs to use.

This is the first I’ve heard anyone recommend using heat at night for hogs also in like any of my research and preparing.

I did take like maybe an inch off of his substrate and because he’s gotten more active I’m thinking that might have helped? And the temps outside have gotten a bit warmer so it may be that it’s just warmed up a bit more and he’s coming out of brumation?

Edit: I have thought abt blocking like two/theee sides of his tank but he comes up on the sides sometimes and seeing him burrow is super fun. I might try maybe like a blanket method to insulate if it gets colder again

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Of course going too far with realism will do more harm than good (i.e, feeding live), but in general striving for a certain level of realism is best. Snakes naturally bask in the sun or on rocks heated by the sun, so while you can recreate that by using a heat mat, it is more realistic to use an overhead heater to warm up a surface to bask on. Even nocturnal species make use of heat lamps. Colubrids and other active especially really benefit from naturalistic setups that let them behave how they would in the wild.

What kind of lamp are you using? CHEs do the job but they’re typically the worst overhead heater. If the basking and ambient temps at the surface aren’t getting warm enough then you can get a more powerful version of what you already have, and if the underground temps still aren’t warm enough then add a heat mat.

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I’m using Arcadia halogen rn, I was just saying that if one worked better I could switch to that instead but I had heard that halogens/deep heat projectors worked better so that’s what I got

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All your care sounds on point. I agree that overhead heating is the most effective and best way to heat an enclosure with halogen bulbs being the best in my opinion. Just because they are in captivity doesn’t mean that they can’t be kept naturally. Everything seems to be in order so keep up the good work!

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@ssssarah As long as your hog eats consistently that’s the main thing regardless of your set up. But as @nswilkerson1 said, unless you want him to brumate he should not be trying to.

Does he eat consistently? My boy is in a tub with an under tank heater only so it stays on 24/7. But he can move from warm side to cold side when he explores……But I understand why you would to have a realistic setup. Again, as long as he eats he should be fine……

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Popping in because I have watched this thread, seen a lot of things, and feel the need to add some personal experience and advice.

Hoggies will try to auto-brumate if the room gets a little chillier and your heat doesn’t keep up. Mine are currently on their little winter hunger strikes right now. I use whole room heating and not enclosure heat, which is why they do this.

Something to keep in mind is that your enclosure is a microclimate. Just because your room is sitting at 74-76 doesn’t mean the enclosure is, too. If you’ve got windows, drafts, anything like that can impact what temperatures they actually get.

A lot of the suggestions against UTHs are, well, opinion based. They work great so long as the UTH is on the outside of the enclosure with the thermostat probe sandwiched between it + the enclosure surface. You do need a 1.5-2" minimum gap under the enclosure to allow air flow if you use a UTH, they cannot be without that gap or they are a hazard. If you want to use one, cool, if not, also fine. CHEs are great, too, and I find they work better for enclosures with deeper substrates than lights do, imo.

As for reading they shouldn’t get below 70º, please remember that while these are captive animals, they’re still wild and nature doesn’t come with a thermostat. We’ve got Hognoses native here in Minnesota where I guarantee the winters get far below that 70ºF mark! Along with that, they take brumation cues from more than just the temperature, so also light cycles, pressure changes, etc. My rules for a non-eating winter hoggie: wait them out while monitoring. If raising the temps doesn’t get Norman eating again, just keep monitoring his weight and activity levels. So long as he doesn’t start losing a significant amount or displaying really worrying behavior, there’s really no reason to worry.

Tbh I think sometimes in trying to help, we can occasionally go a little too overboard with trying to “fix” problems that might not even be problems. To me Norman sounds like a typical hoggie in cold weather.

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I would like to mention that I have absolutely nothing against UTHs but I completely forgot to mention that. UTHs are very ineffective for my situation which seems to be similar to @ssssarah ‘s.

The only thing I have against CHEs is that the heat from them doesn’t penetrate as deep into the muscle as heat produced from a halogen or a DHP.

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I agree with this. UTHs are great in a lot of situations but in this case, (a poorly insulated glass enclosure with a relatively low room temp) I don’t think it’s suitable. I currently use CHEs for my adult boas and they’re good enough but I’m switching over to DHPs because they’re more efficient and natural. My future ideal hognose setup will be a naturalistic wooden viv with a halogen bulb for heating, but there’s nothing wrong with my current mat and tub setup. In short, if you already have a halogen, switching to another heat source will only be a downgrade.

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@ssssarah

This makes the most sense to me of all. So Sarah, you can either let your boy go ahead and brumate like the hoggie he is or keep him from brumating and resume his eating habits.

As I have nothing else to add, best of luck to you!

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Thanks for the suggestions and info everyone!

At the moment he has been on his little winter food strike but I plan to offer some food later in the week just to see if he’ll eat.
I’ve realized I’ve been feeding wrong and not letting the mouse heat up for long enough to get warm enough for Norman so now that I’ve realized that I think he will start eating better/more since I’ve fixed that issue !!

I appreciate everyone’s comments abt care suggestions and what I’ve been doing right/wrong. :slight_smile:

Edit: I did accidentally brumate him but now that my heaters been running and it’s warmed up I think he’s kinda getting out of it on his own as well? But I’m not that sure abt that. He’s definitely resumed most of his normal behavior

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