Not meaning this as an attack in any way, but how do you plan to control unwanted breeding/clutches, and breeding related harassment of the female and conflict between the males? That would be my main concern in a set up like that, though I imagine the female isn’t receptive yet?
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Same here pretty much…… Just not as many in one tank but feeding schedules everything the same. Definitely do bot have any issues. It’s a bit of a myth that ball pythons can not cohabitate. They do so in the wild all the time. And I too introduce the old to the new etc. my daughter has her own snakes and we mix hers as well with mine. Never had any issues ever.
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This is not saying you keep the two males separate. This implies all 3 together.
Unless you meant to say it further in your post and it is missing, since your post cuts off with an “Again,” and then nothing.
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Thanks for highlighting this, I interpreted it the same way you did and felt crazy lol. But yeah, not clear at all if the males were separate, in fact seemed pretty clear to me they were cohabbed
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@cmills @armiyana I read it the same way you did, for what it’s worth.
With a male cohabbing with a female(s), I’d be concerned with the male stressing out the female by trying to breed all the time, and/or potentially over breeding the female to the point of health complications. I know that’s been a documented problem with some species (cresties and leos come to mind). I have heard of some breeders who cohab their boa pairs year-round (or nearly year-round), so maybe that issue isn’t as universal with reptiles as I initially thought? No idea if it’s a problem for ball pythons specifically. 
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Did it! Don’t recommend it! Babies will show up eventually! 
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Boas will occasionally cannibalize their cage mates. I had it happen to me and lost a very expensive male.
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I do have reason to believe that they are not 100% solitary creatures, my boyfriend and I have 2 baby ball pythons that are both relatively a year or younger. We got our male (who was labeled as a pastel ghost when we found him) a little under 6 months ago from a pet store as a rescue since he wouldn’t eat and it was against store policy to feed live so when we took him home we tried feeding him live and he ate for the first time in roughly 3 months. About a month or 2 after we got our male we went to a reptile expo where we bought our female (a vpi axanthic 50% het albino). She had been eating rats prior to us getting her but she went on strike because we couldn’t get her any live rats in town, so we had to start making trips 1-2 hours away to get her food weekly (she did start eating after about 5 weeks of us having her). Before we could get her food though she was always trying to escape from her enclosure and would try to be at the top as best as she could, we decided to put her in with our male to see if that would improve anything since we plan on breeding later on and hope to breed them together in the future. We noticed after about a week or 2 they would cuddle up with each other both in their enclosure and when we had them out and be in the same hide, there was never really a problem with them interacting because our male had already seemed to fall in love with her from just seeing a picture of her before we got her. We introduced them shortly after her quarantine period ended and she was a little hesitant at first towards him but quickly opened up to him. We still have them in the same enclosure and I think her being in the same enclosure as him helped her get used to us since he would spend time with us and she no longer tries to escape. We have them in a 40 gallon where they have plenty of space to be alone if they wish but they still choose to be together majority of the time and we plan on putting them in a larger enclosure as they grow older. (Below this are pictures of both of them together, the lighter is our male while our female is the darker of the 2)
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So are we! Please share in process photos!
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Hey, I know that this thread is old but I wanted to tack on a mention that Norwich Reptile Shed (Youtube, Instagram,) keeps a mature male and mature female ball python together in the same very large enclosure which he built himself. The snakes have no problems according to him and they have plenty of room to explore, avoid each other, or hang out together.
Also I’ve been thinking about this cohabbing and I feel like proposing a potential minimum space-needed equation for cohabbing a reptile species (this isn’t BP specific.) Here it goes:
Species’ care sheet suggested space multiplied by the number of animals in the space, plus one.
So, if a care sheet calls for 40 gallons of space for one animal and a keeper wants three of them in the same enclosure, here’s the math for that:
40 x 3 + 1 (40) = 160 gallons
I believe that a proper cohab enclosure would need at least two hides per animal so that nobody is ever forced to share intimate space if they do not want to, and as much as possible, blocked sightlines with foliage or hardscape. This way, if Snake A is peeved at Snake B, neither of them have to look at each other. (I certainly don’t like looking at my brother when he’s being annoying.)
Additionally, I want to say that in science humans definitely have a very troubling cultural superiority complex which I believe is largely religious in origin. There’s a perception that we’re a master race over all other species which simply is not true.
For example, for ages people have stubbornly refused to pay attention to the fact that wolf packs are not militant units led by so-called ‘alphas’ but are actually just peaceful family units led by a mom and a dad which are structured very much like human families. (There is no such thing as an alpha wolf, that has been long been debunked and the term ‘aloha male’ was actually originally applied to chickens.) Wolves are also known to pass on generational knowledge, care for each other, mourn their dead, participate in often lethal territorial warfare over prey/land resources (when you can’t go to the grocery store you guard your finite pantry with your life,) and among other things, wolves get extremely excited about new life (I mean, we get really stoked about puppies too haha.)
Additionally, lone wolves are not marauding rogues - they are literally just young adults looking for love (a mate.) Lone wolves actually have very bad odds of survival and in general apex predators like wolves avoid risky behaviours which could lead to injury. While a wolf in a pack has its family members to look after it while it heals from an injury, a lone wolf who gets hurt may swiftly starve to death from being unable to chase prey. Since wolves even in packs fail the vast majority of their hunting attempts (because bambi is not harmless,) avoiding starvation is a big part of life for any wolf, but a lone wolf devoid of buddies to help it tactically in the chase has a much harder time of it.
Humans also like to romanticize the ‘otherness’ of animals, another thing which leads us to ignore sameness.
By being vehemently against anthropomorphism humans make ourselves troublingly blind to the things that we actually share in common with other animals, most of which experience all the same range of emotions that we do, right back to fish. This cultural refusal to acknowledge other species’ complexity almost certainly stems from the default human superiority complex.
But anyway, this thread has been an extremely interesting read and all the pictures of ball pythons hanging out are adorable. I’m not sure if I would be brave enough to cohab snakes but that’s just me being an anxious wuss in general. It’s only through well-researched experimentation that we can improve welfare and care for our beloved pets!
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Well said post. Humans definitely have an issue with how they are anthropomorphizing depending on our perceptions.
The one thing I want to add to:
I know you are quoting nonspecifically. But …
Just so anyone reading doesn’t confuse this as the recommended for BPs and jump for it.
40 gallons is the old school minimum for BPs. The new take is 40 gallons might be fine for a small male, but a 4’x2’x2’ or 120gallons is considered optimal.
From there you would need to consider the needs of the particular animals. Ball pythons are not built to be semi arboreal. Do they climb sometimes? Sure. Some more than others. Iirc, males are more often see climbing in rainy season in the wild.
What would that mean? Well the cage SHAPE would also need to take this into account. You can’t just do something 4’x6’x6’. You need that ground space more than height.
Something modular like APEX cages may be an option if you can add an entry hole to the 4x2x2 above instead of leaving the panels between out. Then you would still have some floor space while going up, and especially so if you also add some shelves to keep them from having to climb too far. But otherwise you would be looking at quite a large footprint for optimal care.
I think that is the main factor that’s missed on a lot of cohabiting plans. You want as much useable space as possible. If they can’t climb having a tall space is pointless. It has to be a comfortable living space, not extra potential stress or injury because of it.
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My feeling is to prioritise multiple optimal temperature areas and much more space than a multiple of 1 snakes ideal size, so snakes can disappear if they want and get away from stressful dominance issues or forced shared areas. (or cuddling as some call it 
)
One idea to achieve this, is if big enough, have the ideal temps at the back along the longest area with a thermal gradient to the front. However, my feeling is room size. Just an assumption.
However, a recent experiments have been at that size. There was what appeared some chosen shared space in this situation at times.
Not sure on the validity but it seems an interesting experiment:-
(not by Green room by the way but he interviews them and not the size in the thumbnail)
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Wes, THANK YOU for this. I know the post is quite old now, but it didn’t get much engagement when you posted it, which is surprising to me. I find it interesting that people are so committed to their textbook knowledge about what “we know” about the species, as though information in textbooks and journal articles can never be wrong. It’s insane to me that some people in the community are so hard-headed about this topic. Just to be clear, I’m not trying to call out anyone who responded to this post; I think everyone here is arguing respectfully. I’m talking about the yahoos on the rest of the internet who will practically threaten your family if you dare to say you cohab your BPs. Anyway, keep up the good work, brother, and thank you for sharing your experience!!
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61 posts in the first month alone is pretty good engagement. 0_o
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I was running a test like this I had gotten my first ever clutch to hatch only two of the babies made it so My second clutch I put in with the first clutch because they’re about the same size they’re not far off in age and it brought the total to five snakes and they immediately took off I the two from my first clutch were not eating until I put them in with the others and now I cannot pull the one out or she’ll stop eating I have mostly separated them they each have a friend all of the babies they will be going back in monthly for a couple of days at a time to have a little sleepover with each other because I have watched them interact with each other and it’s super cute they’re all super friendly as well I pulled one out and separated her to see what she would do and she became like instantly bighty and nervous within a day so I added a friend back in with her and she’s calming back down again like no problem I’ve had this going for about a year I have hopefully two gravid girls but I’m not quite sure and then I’m waiting on two more to pair in may they’re my first babies I haven’t handled them in small form but I was also looking into how hognoses like to be with a friend and that it helps them calm down if they’re introduced as babies.
That’s Alice and Bell I let them free roam my bedroom before I added the furniture and they started cuddling in my closet and it’s a pretty big closet they get sleepovers sometimes too.
There are newspaper cuz I’m keeping an eye on their poop they haven’t given me a reason to and it helps me keep it clean I can see it easier most of my adults are on reptisoil though also I stole the hide they pushed it out of the way. The two on the left are snoozing hard and the one on the right used to be super nervous but is super curious now I didn’t pull her out, I’ve seen a confidence boost keeping them together as babies and them growing together compared to the adults that I have All of these babies I can touch the heads and the necks of they are comfortable with handling except for the one that I pulled out by herself she’s not okay with that she was the last snake introduced to the group because she was a little small All of them are girls I wasn’t quite sure on how big of an enclosure to put the group in because I was worried that they would go off of food I didn’t know how big was too big but I will be raising its size now and I have a tote im gonna upgrade them too but the girl I pulled out is smaller than I wanted so I havent added the others because I wanted to add them all at the same time so there was no potential territory issues in the future I’m not really sure how that works with ball pythons or even if they would because they’re all girls. I don’t know how big exactly it is but it is about 3-4 ft long 1-2ft wide like 2-3ft tall not measuring rn that’s approx
I’m going to attack you a couple of pictures of my snakes and Penelope my Chinese water dragon because she’s cute and she’s looking at me right now so it might be a threat.
Pics 3&7 are mom and dad
And that’s Penelope because she’s looking at me rn
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Beautiful pythons and penelope is gorgeous
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To play devil’s advocate here, I think a substantial reason your ball pythons are stressed, defensive and refusing to eat when separated is not due to lack of cohabitation, but rather due to being kept in barren, empty, open enclosures on dirty newspaper. Cohabitation is serving as some sort of enrichment in an environment completely devoid of any other type of stimulation. I think you’d find if you put your snakes individually in nice setups with hides, a few branches, anything to fill the open space and promote species-specific behavior, you’d see a significant amelioration of stress induced behavior. It’s sort of the equivalent of how people in prison may not enjoy their cell mate, but it’s still better than solitary confinement with no environmental stimulus
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Sorry for the late response I cease to exist sometimes and I don’t get notifications
The two snakes on the newspaper are both females I open the enclosures on both of them and they both curled up together in that enclosure I moved the hide and decor then took a picture That’s why there’s not much in that picture.
My babies are all in enclosures with dirt I prefer reptasoil but most are on coconut husk they have decorations sticks rocks bark leaves and sometimes non harmful items I think theyd like such as poptart boxes or I pot a plant in there for them to kill they have water they have hides and decor they have options they don’t have to cuddle with each other every time I open the bin they’re all cuddled together they have stimulation I pull them out interact with them they eat when together I’m handling them as I do my normal ball pythons the ones that I don’t have in the enclosures
I didn’t put all of my snakes in separate setups I put a single snake alone by herself All of the others were put with another friend The other friend kept eating the one that was put by herself stopped eating they were in good setups I wouldn’t just not
I work with my snakes I like taking care of these animals I like setting up their enclosures and she missed too many meals with me attempting to solo her I stopped handling her for a little while so she could get used to the enclosure too it hasn’t worked
I pulled my snakes out for the pictures they’re outside they do get outside time during the summer time too so they’re not always in the bins I try to get them out at least once a week
my adult girls have an entire room to free roam until egg season or I release Penelope I add sticks and stuff to that room for them to sniff and climb as well
I hope that clears some things up they’re not just cell mates It’s like a whole little forest in there it isn’t as tall as I’d like it tho I do need to figure out how to give them height but I think that’s all I need for thier care they’ve got ventilation in the lid The whole enclosure stays about 76 to 80 they have a hot hide and a humid hide and I make cardboard hides for them to use I change them out often and need to make the next one
I don’t know what else I’m forgetting
I would like to double down on what I’m saying though it’s only one ball python that got spicy The ones that you were calling a dirty enclosure were two adult females that willingly cuddled together when they had an entire room to explore they like coming out I have videos of both of them perusing around do they come out on their own too and they put themselves away Bell just puts herself in Alice’s enclosure and I believe that ball pythons can have best friends they follow each other to the closet
That room is for the reptiles it was a bedroom so it has a dresser in the closet and some clothes hanging but it’s now the reptile room It’s reptile safe it has interactive things for them I don’t force them to leave their enclosures unless I’m holding them they also tell me when they went out The whole room is like 76-80 degrees it does have a gradient we have a space heater in there that we keep an eye on it gets cleaned regularly The snakes can’t burn themselves on it they don’t get access to it it’s out of reach whenever they’re out
Most of my adults are in the bins I use snake racks Alice isn’t in the bin she’s really big I wish I had enough money to afford getting all of them massive ginormous enclosures but I’m currently in a one-bedroom apartment due to some prior issues and we’re trying to get out of the United States we’ve put buying new enclosures on the back burner but the plan is to get them massive enclosures.
This is like my third year keeping snakes I had one when I was a kid but it’s been so long and I can’t remember my childhood so eef I do take critiques I just didn’t give you any enclosure pictures so I can’t listen to your critiques until you do see them I try and change the enclosures out because I don’t have an extensive amount of decorations I had I just threw away a lot of them because they were disgusting thx bullsnakes
But here’s a few
The snake likes to push that cup around so I just fill it with water and he humidifies his own enclosure The normal girl is like 2 weeks from laying eggs and she fit in her hide before she started swelling lol this is my first time getting eggs from her so I didn’t know how big she’d get and I spot cleaned in a few of the pics
I didn’t include my hug nose pair cuz they’re currently breeding and Bell is currently breeding with my pie bald normal boy Penelope is currently free roaming the picture with the big old water thing that’s her hub the room is hers for the most part In the little water area she has a baby red-eared slider who she can’t eat and a water filter I spilled a little bit when I put the water in there so I do need to clean the bottom part but and her soil is wet because of it
And that banana ball python doesn’t currently have a hide because he pooped on it
The garter snakes are on paper towel because the girl has a scar on her belly she got caught in one of her plants like a year and a half ago It’s healing over perfectly fine she just doesn’t have 2 belly scutes she can complete a solid shed and eats super well so I could put her back on the soil but I don’t feel like it is the current safest because of the lack of belly scutes.
They’re all on thermostats as well the rack is hooked up up at the top it’s underneath one of the bins the babies are in a different bin right now It’s also has its probe underneath Alice’s goes from the top of her enclosure I moved it to take the pic It’s attached to the same thermostat that the rack one has and on top of the edge of her enclosure is another little hydrometer thermometer so I can just double check most of the heat doesn’t really turn on until night time because of the space heater