Premature Death in Reptile Hatchlings

[trnreptiles]

I’ll keep this in mind, especially if another hatchling passes. The female that produced the first clutch of mine was a proven female purchased from a well-established breeder.
The second and third clutches had virgin females, and only 1 baby had died from the second clutch. All 3 babies from the third are still alive. The fourth clutch was also from a previously proven female, and out of 10 babies only 1 has passed away.

I currently have just been freezing the hatchlings that don’t make it, since I’d like to get them all preserved later on.

Again, this seems to only be an issue with my hatchlings, specifically the smaller and weaker ones. I have others that I also produced that are eating and growing really well (one of my holdbacks just hit 200 grams recently! She’s getting chunky, that’s for sure)

[extremeexotics]

First of all, this is my first time breeding my Ball Pythons, and these have been my experiences.

Some background info.

I built my own incubator out of an old fridge, not the prettiest trust me, but I did invest in a very good thermostat.

I open my incubator only from day 50 onwards, to ensure minimal temp fluctuations. I only open the tubs if something is going wrong, like extreme dimpling etc.

My results thus far:

100% hatch rate out of 7 clutches, two more to go…
Only one baby (Cinnamon Hidden Gene Woma female) had to be assist fed two times and is now eating the best and is actually the biggest.
I did have 1 very small egg, with the hatchling being only 20 grams, hatched out of a boob egg, but it is thriving and doing really well.
No meal regurgutation from any hatchlings thus far.

Now, trust me I am absolutely no expert at all, but I have found that the following helps.

First and the most important is, ask on these forums regarding anything you have doubts on. I have been saved numerous times by people on this forum that have assisted me, eg saleengrinch, eaglereptiles, t_h_wyman etc etc etc

Do not cut eggs early, I cut my eggs on my last clutch 3 days earlier than I usually do which was day 57, ( I usually wait for 1 or 2 to pip), nothing serious happened but they took 7 days to get out of the eggs, which was nerve wrecking…I will never do it again.

The main thing I want you to know, is that as with all things, especially when dealing with animals and a lot of things are out of our control, don’t lose hope… these things happen and I believe everything is a learning curve.

I am sorry to hear about your bad luck, it is always bad to lose an animal, especially hatchlings.

Things will get better and you will have hatchlings galore.
Good Luck😁

[saleengrinch]

@extremeexotics 100% hatch rate on 7 clutches is awesome!!! Your doing very well!!! Hatching more clutches than I did this year!! And your advice is spot on!

[jrc_retics]

I fully agree with Shaun. @extremeexotics best advice anyone could give in this thread!

[trnreptiles]

It’s all definitely been a learning curve, and I hope to do better next season. I’m still proud of my achievements thus far, and it can only get better from here if I put the effort and time into making sure I get things right.

Again I think I’ll be investing into a hotbox incubator, which comes with a VE-200 so I’ll have a better thermostat than the one I was using.
I’m also on a hunt for a temp gun (something I KNOW I should have gotten a long time ago, it’s one of those “reptile essentials”) and so far haven’t been able to find any locally. People buying them for COVID measures, I suppose. Might have to try ordering one online if all else fails.

But thank you for your kind words and words of wisdom! Everyone’s insights have definitely helped me be able to think of the big picture, rather than focus on just this one incident. As sucky as it is to lose a baby, sometimes it just isn’t meant to be.

[extremeexotics]

Just want to say, I absolutely love your attitude and willigness as well as eagerness to take in info and comments. You are gonna go far!!!

Please keep us updated on the progress of your hatchlings and things going forward.

I learn from each and every topic posted on here and it is great that we also discuss the difficulties we encounter.

Wishing you the best of luck and many healthy eating, shedding, pooping hatchlings😂

[trnreptiles]

Oh yeah! I’m excited about what’s to come, producing my own babies has been a really great experience and I really love the “gambling” aspect of breeding when it comes to genetics!

Also…

Hopefully this will do for the time being. $20 forehead thermometer Our local menards had none, so we went to another nearby one…

And they had PLENTY.

[lumpy]

I only spent 30 bucks at my local Home Depot to get an infrared thermometer that has a 10-1 ratio. It is from Klein tools. If anyone is interested it was in the electrical department. Has a range from -4°F all the way to 752°F.

[trnreptiles]

I was also looking for one of those too, but didn’t know where they’d be at. When we asked they just took us to the ones I showed in the pics.

Would probably be better to get one of those other ones for the long run since it reads a much higher range of temperatures… the one I got only reads around the usual body temperature ranges of a human

[elementalherps]

The regurging issue you mentioned @trnreptiles is alarming. Can it be something as simple as their temperatures being off? Was the same male or two the one who sired the failed clutches?

I don’t know how different Ball Python eggs are from Hognose eggs, but we’ve had around a 98% survival rate (after hatching) between 15 clutches over the last 4 seasons. Approximately 8% of our eggs either went bad, or weak genetics (I lavenders) contributed to them not making it out of the egg. You’ve definitely had a rough year I hope next year is a better one for you

[saleengrinch]

Like @elementalherps suggest check your temps with your new gun! I always keep my hatchlings cooler than I do my adults.

[lumpy]

That is definitely a good tip that I’ve heard from some breeders that are just trying to like get on their feet. Could you explain why that works/or why you do that because I haven’t found really a good explanation?

[saleengrinch]

Honestly I don’t know why lol. Old trade secret I guess. I’m sure someone can actually explain why.

[trnreptiles]

I actually produced 7 viable hognose eggs this last season as well, 1 went bad into incubation but I think that was because my clumsy ass dropped the egg container while trying to check them
The other 6 hatched out fine and I was able to get them all eating mouse pinks without having to scent, and all found homes besides the one I kept for future breeding.

I’ll go into more detail on these pairings:

Clutch 1
1.0 banana yellowbelly x 0.1 pastel het VPI axanthic
Same male as clutch 4

Female Lay Due Date: 04/17/20
Laid: 05/13/20

Clutch hatched 7/12/20

8 good eggs, 0 slugs
2 eggs went bad mid-incubation
1 additional egg went bad late into incubation
4 babies died after eggs were cut
1 baby survived, had to be assist fed but now takes live rat pups on his own
I did not get weights on these babies, but the earliest weights I had on the surviving male:
60 grams (7/15/20)
62 grams (9/1/20)
100 grams (11/12/20)

Clutch 2
1.0 super mystic x 0.1 butter

Female Lay Due Date: 05/14/20
Laid: 05/28/20

Clutch hatched 07/27/20

7 healthy eggs, 0 slugs.
All babies hatched out fine but one died suddenly after regurgitating. Died on 11/23/20. Seemed to not be a great feeder to begin with.
On the other hand, my holdback from this clutch, a butter mystic female, hit 200 grams as of recent and is still pounding food. The others that have been sold are doing well according to their new owners.

Clutch 3
1.0 butter spinner x 0.1 pewter

Female Lay Due Date: 07/22/20
Laid: 07/31/20

Clutch hatched 09/29/20

3 healthy eggs, 1 slug
This was a small clutch with huge eggs.
Babies hatched out at around 70 grams.
The 3 eggs all hatched out healthy, 2 of 3 of the babies started eating soon after. I’ve had to assist feed the third one as she has not shown interest in food at all, and I’ve offered both live rat pups and mouse hoppers, and f/t of both as well.

Clutch 4
1.0 banana yellowbelly x 0.1 spider
Same male as clutch 1

Female Lay Due Date: 08/11/20
Laid: 08/14/20

Clutch hatched 10/13/20

10 healthy eggs, 0 slugs
This was a huge clutch, and had small eggs.
Babies hatched out around 49-64 grams.
All 10 babies hatched out healthy.
Several struck and wrapped food, but did not eat it. I boosted their temperature a bit, and then they started eating normally.
The males seem to be the issue in this clutch, as 4 out of 5 have all regurgitated. The females on the other hand are eating well and doing great.
One male that had regurgitated also suddenly died, on 12/16/20.

I gotta get batteries in the temp gun, but once I do I’ll give this a thread an update on the temps of both racks.

[saleengrinch]

How long are you giving the hatchlings to eat before you assist feed? As long as they absorb the sac they can go way longer than people realize without eating. I only use assist feeding at absolute last resort.

[libthelinguist]

You mentioned a low quality thermostat. Scrap the prefab bator and immediately buy the best thermostat they make. Cut the power to 75%. Make an incubator. that right there is the problem.

[libthelinguist]

Also I have great luck with using probiotics to replenish gut flora. I hope things improve for you.

[trnreptiles]

@saleengrinch
I’m giving them 4-6 weeks before I start assist feeding, though I mainly make the decision based on their body condition.

The first assist feed for the surviving male from clutch 1 was on August 8th. So about 4 weeks — though for him I wanted to ensure his survival so that’s why I went ahead with assist feeding. He has a slightly deformed head and a tiny kink in his tail, and he wobbles a bit like a spider. Unlike most hatchlings, he’s as gentle as can be and I don’t think he has that defensive instinct in him.

The first time I assist fed the female from clutch number 3 was on November 9th.
I mostly made that decision because she was (and still does) look very thin and has loose skin.

@libthelinguist
I didn’t say I had a low quality thermostat. I have a VE-100, which because it’s an on/off thermostat I don’t think is the best option for an incubator. It worked, just not ideal.
The stat stopped working properly more recently, while I was using the incubator to incubate a pair of crested gecko eggs.

Again I plan to look into getting a hotbox incubator from CSerpents, which comes with a VE-200 and is pulse proportional. Unless ya’ll think that’s not a good idea.

The incubator I used was one that I made myself. Pulled up the pictures I took of it when it was freshly set up:

It held temps right at 88°F according to the thermometer/hygrometer I had sitting in there.

[saleengrinch]

@trnreptiles

Unlike most hatchlings, he’s as gentle as can be and I don’t think he has that defensive instinct in him

Are all your hatchlings defensive? Just curious because I rarely have aggressive ball hatchlings.

[trnreptiles]

Several of mine will stiffen up and sometimes hiss at me, though I really haven’t had any actually bite at me besides one or two… this boy hasn’t displayed any of that behavior and instead is one of the few that comes up to the front of the tub out of pure curiosity (the others at the front of the tub are usually looking for food )