Pricing....The Correct Way

[monroemorphs]

One thing I forgot to method on Morph that we try to point people to especially new is the How to Inquire section.

How many do, how many care is the question. Again no one likes shipping, everyone wants the best for the least spent. The difference with living animals vs again a TV off an assembly line is some people are under the belief a Clown Yellow Belly Ball Python is the same from whoever you buy it from, so if one seller has one for $300 & another has it for $200 then the higher seller should match end of story. Sellers are buying the individual animal, sometimes buying the gene expression. You could be paying for a different level of service, etc. There are an array of factors that can go into why each seller prices slightly different but the first is not treating the animals as all equal & rather as living pieces of individual art. You are buying THAT animal, not an animal

[caron]

Sounds like we agree on the key points. I like your idea of the “buyer offer” auto. Also, exactly what you said, this is a great way to exchange ideas to learn more and improve, not bully and ridicule. I detest Facebook, Twitter, etc because of this. This forum, for most part, is not like this.

Keep chipping away with suggestions for improvement! You are doing very well here!

Caron.

[armiyana]

Thank you for expanding on it! And finding a similar number to commiserate on with inquiries:sales. Frustrating at times but expected.

Overall great ideas and the one concern I had was making it seem dehumanized in the process. But looks like that isn’t an issue after all.
It will be interesting seeing what others think of the end of the holidays has more people popping in on this.

[7snakes]

@armiyana

There will always be people showing up to take up your time.

That’s true, and I always try to decline offers I won’t accept as politely as possible, even if I find them insulting. I realize in most cases they are not intended to offend.

@monroemorphs

There was a time where asking for free shipping or asking for 5%, 10%, 15% was a thing. But it has increased where a starting point is 25% to 50% off list price as well as factoring in shipping.

This exactly. I don’t mind giving a small discount when people ask nicely, but I reserve the right to turn people down if the offer is too low, or if I simply like the animal too much to give a discount. I put a lot of time and effort into my snakes, so when people ask for a discount over 25% plus free shipping it feels both disrespectful to me and to the snakes.

I’ve also found that people asking for huge discounts are typically flaky. They rarely go through with the sale even if you offer them the discount they’re asking for. They’re just looking for cheap snakes, nothing specific. If the price means more to someone than the snakes themselves then I don’t mind them shopping elsewhere.

[caryl]

Many good points have been made. I’ll comment briefly. Like most other breeders here, I do this because z in passionate about the animals in my care, those produce, those I hope to produce. I have zero interest in any type of “auto accept” type feature. They’re not inventory in the typical sense of the term, not to me. They’re not widgets.

@monroemorphs

Sellers are buying the individual animal, sometimes buying the gene expression. You could be paying for a different level of service, etc. There are an array of factors that can go into why each seller prices slightly different but the first is not treating the animals as all equal & rather as living pieces of individual art. You are buying THAT animal, not an animal.

Exactly so. I can tell people about any individual’s temperament, socialization, feeding behavior. For the majority of BrightHope snakes, I can and will happily discuss parentage and family lines and traits and origins, often going back years. Again, not widgets.

@7snakes

I’ve also found that people asking for huge discounts are typically flaky. They rarely go through with the sale even if you offer them the discount they’re asking for. They’re just looking for cheap snakes, nothing specific. If the price means more to someone than the snakes themselves then I don’t mind them shopping elsewhere.

Agreed. We’re not a large operation, but that doesn’t mean I don’t take my animals and my business seriously. In fact, our motto is “Small scale professionals.” There are always going to be window shoppers and flaky non-buying time-suckers in any business. Annoying? Sure. But just part of selling anything. I’m comfortable not selling to them.

[d_y_python]

@monroemorphs I was with you on the vetting auto response. But only for a few seconds. I think this would have everyone sending in low offers over and over again until they hit your lowest price. Snake for sale $100. I offer 50… No, then 60…no, then 70…no, at 80 I get a yes. Now the seller just lost 20 from someone just playing the game.
I believe this will be the normal for almost every sale, no communication just button pushing.
Then everyone starts listing things for more so the don’t loose the 20. Now the same snake is listed for $140. So the game can be played and the seller gets what they want.

@monroemorphs, everything you are suggesting all sounds great for an eBay type community. I feel this community is still more like a (snake for sale sign in the yead and you can deal directly with a each other and make decisions on the person along with the snake.) this is what I feel is how people hear like it to be. (some large breeding companies excluded. They need to move larger amounts of inventory). Not that there is anything wrong with it. It is a business. They might like this idea and I think if I was a large breeder, I would use it. No to little interaction, snake 100, push a button for 70 get a yes, then directed to my payment site. That is if I had 100’# to move each year. Time is money for big business thinking.

[monroemorphs]

Now don’t get me wrong, lets put this other problem into play for good measure. IF there were a push button in place for an offer aspect there still leaves the difference of shipping. Think about it, from East Coast to West Costing shipping on one listing (for sake of discussion) vs just a town over pickup or a couple states nearby could change what a seller would agree to as an offer. There are alot of moving pieces in this type of concept. Ultimately what has been gathered her which is perfect information is thus, everyone does not like the idea of an auto accept type offer feature however equally everyone sees the aspects of how offers are a game, buyers tend to be more focused on the dollar vs the animal & having someone come out of the woodwork never having even messaged you before with an instead will you take X is just too common.

There are alot of enablers that cause the entitlement & expectations within this industry, laced in the platform (not the platform itself) as well as just buying & selling metrics as a whole.

I use eBay as an example of comparison & I think some focus is misdirected but thats no biggie. I can use Amazon as well that carries over to what goes on when dealing with living content as well. The expectation that buying mentality is conditioned to, you place your purchase for something & get it next day. If you are told otherwise then its a problem. That should not occur when dealing with live cargo despite it does ship in an overnight service, but rather the seller needs to ship accordingly, on select days & should be shipping per the animal’s welfare first; not the buyer’s demands

Unfortunately, because of some; instead of that being a norm & complete across the board understanding in this industry as it should be, it is variable & while many are understanding you get others that are again entitled, demanding & enabled because of those that allow such.

There will always be tire kickers, there will always be those that low ball, there will always those that put money first. It is part of sales & competing as afterall even if there was MAPP on every animal listed someone would still break it lol

I don’t want to see things easier or catered towards the incorrect situations, rather the opposite. In a right world an audience would respect the work put into the animals produced whether basement breeder or 5th facility built ground up, they would respect unlike other industry’s with “free shipping” there is no such thing as free shipping & shipping can be anywhere from $50 to $150 so when something is listed for $80 & you want it shipped free, perhaps take a ride to pick it up yourself. That for many smaller time people this is more a passion & hobby, that a sale is just to recoup some feeder expenses or maybe a new animal themselves but even the larger guys margins don’t work the same as in typical retail so if things are not turning over such as many this year you’re losing more than you gain but only a select few actually make a true living.

Unfortunately all in all, the world won’t change & the line its part of business will always stay true. I do think the feedback as a whole has been on point from everyone.

[caron]

I agree with you about disrespect for sellers. I don’t know how to copy quotes so I will do the best I can. I realize people may not mean to be disrespectful on purpose but no matter how you slice and dice it, that’s what it is. There are some people who want something for nothing, with no consideration
for how much it took to produce that “something”. For me personally, I would embarrassed to make an obscenely low ball offer because it not only demeans the seller/breeder, it demeans the animal itself, as if the animal has no real worth. There are thousands of animals for sale on MM. If the price is too high, go to the next. However, in most cases you get what you pay for……

[caron]

Yes AMEN to everything you stated! Thank you very much!

[dschindler]

I’ve never offered lower on any of the animals I’ve purchased personally. I don’t necessarily see a need to do so as I spend a lot of time researching, comparing and contrasting, asking questions of sellers, etc.

But I’ve also had sellers pull some shady things on me; one seller in particular upped a price because there was more interest in the particular snake…not realizing that the “more interest” was me text messaging them a few days after I sent them a message on MM because I was highly interest in the snake in particular and was ready to drop money on her.

I’ve also been the “tire kicker” in that I’ll ask a lot of questions of sellers, and if they don’t answer in the ways that I am searching for, I’ll pass on the animal in question. I care that my sellers’ can answer me questions about temperament, feeding responses, lineage, etc. I’ve even passed on well respected/known sellers because I’ve been told they couldn’t share the information I requested because they have too many animals on hand to know.
However I’ve always answered if I was going to purchase.

In some ways, I take MM as a worldwide expo in that I can communicate directly with sellers, negotiate with them if I want, ask the questions I want, and decide if they are a worthwhile business. I would personally prefer not to change the current system because it works for me as a buyer. Eventually I want to become a seller and I may or may not change my mind, but that’s years off yet.

I notice a lot of frustration from sellers with people like me who are determined to vet the quality of my sellers and their animals. A lot of frustration that, I as a buyer, see as an integral part of the selling process.

Buyers aren’t just buying animals, they are buying your brand too. Whenever people ask where they got such an awesome looking animal, they are sharing their experience of buying from you with others. If they use that animal to breed, they are then sharing that lineage they got from you.
I’ve paid higher prices for that lineage and being able to trace it. I’ve also passed on animals that didn’t have a traceability to their lineages, even if they would work for my projects.

I don’t want to lose the focus of communication I find necessary on MM, because it’s that communication that makes my purchases happen. And afterwards, I like to get permission to post on FBI reptile groups about my experience so people can know safe sellers.

[caryl]

@d_y_python

I think this would have everyone sending in low offers over and over again until they hit your lowest price. Snake for sale $100. I offer 50… No, then 60…no, then 70…no, at 80 I get a yes. Now the seller just lost 20 from someone just playing the game.
I believe this will be the normal for almost every sale, no communication just button pushing.

Oh man alive, I hadn’t even thought of that possibility. I’m sure you’re correct. To me, that is another manifestation of certain buyers considering animals as widgets.

@d_y_python

everything you are suggesting all sounds great for an eBay type community. I feel this community is still more like a (snake for sale sign in the yead and you can deal directly with a each other and make decisions on the person along with the snake.) this is what I feel is how people hear like it to be.

I think this is an excellent way to describe MM. And yeah, I’m one of the many who like it this way. As a buyer, as a seller, as someone experienced with certain animals, as someone loving exploring info about so many new species. I truly value the dynamic here.

Others have other ways of doing things, and that’s fine. I don’t mean to imply that others’ methods are wrong. They’re wrong for me, but they may be perfect for them.

[caryl]

@dschindler

I’ve also been the “tire kicker” in that I’ll ask a lot of questions of sellers, and if they don’t answer in the ways that I am searching for, I’ll pass on the animal in question. I care that my sellers’ can answer me questions about temperament, feeding responses, lineage, etc. I’ve even passed on well respected/known sellers because I’ve been told they couldn’t share the information I requested because they have too many animals on hand to know.
However I’ve always answered if I was going to purchase

I’ve got to say, @dschindler , I don’t consider that tire kicking. I think of tire kickers to be those who are interested in asking questions but not really interested in buying. I generally do try to answer their questions, though I often grumble to myself as I do, lol.

I ask questions, too. I’m not selling widgets, and I’m not buying them. I am very particular about animals who be part of my collection and breeding program. Sometimes my questions are mostly answered through research before I contact a seller. Sometimes I know that a seller won’t be in a position to answer questions bout temperament because of the number of animals they care for. That’s not wrong, that’s simply reality. It isn’t necessarily a reason I would pass on an animal with very specific genes I was looking for, but it’s not my preference.

@dschindler

Buyers aren’t just buying animals, they are buying your brand too. Whenever people ask where they got such an awesome looking animal, they are sharing their experience of buying from you with others. If they use that animal to breed, they are then sharing that lineage they got from you.
I’ve paid higher prices for that lineage and being able to trace it. I’ve also passed on animals that didn’t have a traceability to their lineages, even if they would work for my projects.

This is well phrased. Gotta agree with it wholeheartedly.

@dschindler

I notice a lot of frustration from sellers with people like me who are determined to vet the quality of my sellers and their animals. A lot of frustration that, I as a buyer, see as an integral part of the selling process.

Also gotta say, I’m sorry about that frustration. I’ve experienced it as a buyer on occasion. It hasn’t been my usual experience as a buyer but it has happened to me, also. It is unfortunate. As a seller, I try really hard not to be that person.

[dschindler]

My methods have been called tire kicking before, which I’m cool with because I’m buying an animal with a commitment to decades of care. I want to make sure we fit very well together.

While I can and have tamed down animals before, even feral cats, I don’t particularly like having to do it for my pets or my projects. I know if I can get the same/similar or wait a bit for someone to have what I want/need, I’ll twiddle my thumbs and wait.

But if it was say, one that would fit perfectly with my projects and with the projects after my base projects AND was a good price? …I can’t say I wouldn’t forego some of my normally necessary info. But I’d mark that animal for me only to handle as my wife, in-laws, and neighbors all love handling my snakes.

It sounds like a what you’re already doing is great! And tbh you are one of the sellers I intentionally followed because of your interactions on the community side of MM.

[caryl]

Lol your approach sounds exactly like mine! Long term commitment, incoming skittish ones tagged for just me, etc. I’ve also tamed down some difficult critters of various kinds, from snakes to horses, and yes, even a
feral cat or two.

Thank you for the follow! I really do appreciate the reason. (Not promoting sales, just saying thanks. Hope this is okay with Mods.)

[caryl]

This may be slightly off topic, but we have been discussing issues around transactions. I had a frustrating communication last night. I had sent an inquiry on 12 December about two snakes owned by the same seller. I said that I wanted to buy them. I did ask some questions. The seller’s store policy said they were closed for the holidays, though I didn’t get an auto-reply. I have kept checking, and the snakes were still listed. I didn’t want to be a pesty buyer and send multiple messages when they’re closed. I assumed they’d be in touch after their stated holiday closure. (There’s an obvious typo. I’ve got vision issues and sometimes they slip through. The meaning is still clear.)

Yesterday evening I got this.

I find this really frustrating. I do understand that there are other ways to sell animals and obviously somebody beat me to these snakes. That’s fine. But after waiting hopefully for over two weeks, it would have been nice to get a personal contact saying so.

[john]

Cross-linking another convo here where the “Make an Offer” idea was discussed:

Make an Offer Inquiry [2275]

Right now, inquiries are totally free-form. I’m thinking about a feature to try to avoid buyers low-balling and offering 50% of the list price. What do you think about sellers optionally configuring ads to require inquiries to make an offer. “I’m considering an offer of X” – and you cannot submit the form unless the value is within range of what the seller configures, ie 25% less. This does not obligate the seller to sell for this amount, it just doesn’t let them offer less. A couple challe…

[monroemorphs]

@dschindler In reference to a tire kicker as with some others saying I wouldn’t say you’re one whether someone has called you such in the past or not. Vetting goes both ways as buyers should feel comfortable buying & know they are getting healthy, quality animals as well as what they are intending to purchase. I think some on social media again jump the gun alittle with the red flags as everything gets tagged of what to watch for when dealing with sellers but there are some that yes can be red flags when looked at in the right context.

There are buyers & sellers in all time zones as well as periods or stages in life / life situations. I think there is a reasonable reply window on both ends but what happens to many is inquiries with no follow-up & poor etiquette.

Whether its someone asking for a photo of something, an invoice or just a “can you do blank” request; if a message is sent & a reply is given, when a response is not received all and all, if you’re not ready don’t inquiry. What I mean more by that is not including vetting, getting a bad feeling or not the answer wanted, but say someone messages & goes “can I put a deposit down”. In less than 5 minutes a reply is received from a seller, the message shows read but then no response is given. That can leave a bad taste.

On the same a red flag that can be send the same similar on seller ends which was bigger in the past till some adjustments on Morph is messages being seen but not being replied too within seconds, minutes, etc. Now from a seller stand point; messages should be answered in the order received as well as depending on the amount of messages it could take time to go through them. Some buyers think sellers choose who offered the best offer, or who they want to response to first. I’m not speaking for all sellers on that as it is possible & I disagree with that practice. Inquiries should be in order & if an invoice or such is sent out this is additionally why time limitations should be in place & understood as if I have 10 inquiries on the same animal, give #1 an hour to pay & they don’t then move down they line in the same format you could be talking 10hrs to get to everyone which sounds short in one hand if down that way & long to others.

I’ve been in the same asking questions on specific animals from sellers & it takes them a week to get a weight back back to me; from sellers with facilities & multiple staff, that is not the norm for most though as the majority are 1-3 individuals & a large portion work multi jobs so the time they are taking to type or do pics & such can be selective.

I think anyone buying something, especially living should be able to get the information they request to feel comfortable in their purchase & if a seller puts up walls & lack of interest then sure, they can be busy, been burnt & maybe aren’t interested; that is their business model & can hurt them. On the same, if inquiring buyers should either be prepared to proceed or if they get info they don’t agree with, just close the loop. Unfortunately many do not & that practice is what causes alot of the drama

[monroemorphs]

@john So one thing that seems to be a running theme in this thread is vetting. Personally, again; I’d love to see offers go away & just see pricing, sales pricing as well as shipping & free shipping. But reality is the offers will always be somewhere in this.

Is there something that can be put in play on the seller end to maybe do a “pre vet” process? Whether again, an auto reply with just a couple questions that can be set per seller, what is more important to the individual seller & such at which point if a potential buyer looks to proceed then they would follow-up which is a good measure point or the seller can follow-up based on the reply.

If there is a strong drop off again it can be a measure point on how many are focused more on saving a dollar vs purchasing a quality animal from a reputable source.

[eaglereptiles]

@monroemorphs

an auto reply with just a couple questions that can be set per seller,

You can do this already
Setting Seller-Away Status - MorphMarket Support Center - this is the guide for the “Away Message” feature, but its the same set up for the “Inquiry Message” feature.