You should totally make a thread dedicated to setting up the all mighty Nanner’s enclosure!
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So we have a pet store baby ball that we set up a 40 gallon breeder viv for. We discovered he has mites (came home with them) so we tore the initial setup down and moved him(after treatment) to a 10 gallon on paper towels with a hide and water. We are concerned he is getting a nose rub because he was doing so well in a larger space. Now he’s contained and doesn’t have the ability to burrow (he’s a digger and a climber) but it’s temporary. We have the space, aren’t breeding and want to keep him as a pet, nothing more. He is a totally chill snake. With the mite issue I have had to check his lips, vent, and give him a bath…every day. We will be setting up the viv again next month. I know he was fine in a smaller space before, and he’s not suffering in the small space now, but he was enjoying his options in the larger space. I know breeding requires smaller areas, and royal/ball pythons are happy spending their time in a hide. But it also depends on what they get accustomed to
For all intents and purposes, if a breeder wanted to they could have full sized rooms for each individual snake if they wanted to. The reason that breeders use racks is for efficiency and cheapest possible way to keep animals properly. I know this is completely irrelevant but it is 11 pm and I can’t sleep 
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Not as bad as my past midnight forum browsing 
Sometimes I can’t sleep other times I just don’t want to.
PS. I agree with you, if I ever breed Beans for mini versions (all would be named after different kinds of beans of course) I would keep him in a big enclosure, his “wife” would get her own big enclosure all to herself as well. It helps that I don’t plan on producing a lot of snakes, I would do one clutch and probably be done
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precisely! Snakey Playground! Lori Torrini the animal behaviorist does this and more for her snakes, and she even has taught them by regular repetition that going into a specific special box hide ends the session and gets them put back into their enclosure, every time, so once they connect that in their heads they can “request” to be returned to their home at will.
I don’t know if my BP can figure that much out, but it’s worth a try and it’d sure be interesting.
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I love Lori Torrini! She is great. I also like Snake therapy with Shira Loa, she does similar things to Lori and mentions her sometimes in videos. Honestly they could do a collab at some point.
Shira did a whole video on how to make a snake playground!
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Snake therapy and behavior specialists I can watch videos and read stuff from!? Count me in!
My whole take on enclosure size as someone who has varied python species and a few random specimens, in my mind it’s all up to the snake itself. I do firmly believe there’s a such thing as too small, and too bare, but the best isn’t one size fits all. I keep a breeding pair of my pythons together in a 6 foot long enclosure nearly year round and as far as I can tell they’re perfectly content, doing they’re own business and getting to it when they feel in season, I’ve kept BPs in racks, I had one awhile ago that would go out of his way to make my life hell, nose rub, hissing, biting, refusing food, even though he had a 40 gallon bioactive enclosure all to himself with spot on temps and clutter from what I thought. The problem I’ve found with this mentality is that it takes a lot of time, space, money, and patience unless you already have experience with snakes and hence have the knowledge and supplies at your disposal if you start off with this mentality (AKA having a stack of 40 gallon aquariums, custom built wooden enclosures, too many storage bins, and a bunch of dusty racks sitting in my garage) personally I find this works best with me with all the experimentation, but I know some might be more limited with what they can do, bottom line, keeping the hope of going by this until it’s available is something and tubs come in a lot of sizes for not much money, lol!
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I feel like this is a fact that a lot of the knee-jerk anti-tub people don’t consider. Just because an animal is kept in a tub doesn’t automatically mean that the enclosure is small. Nor does it mean that the animal doesn’t have any enrichment. Tubs come in all shapes and sizes, and can be outfitted in infinite different ways. You can do up a tub just as nicely and elaborately as you can a tank or PVC enclosure. The animal doesn’t care if it’s in a $10 tub from Target or a $1500 custom-made PVC enclosure so long as it has what it needs.
My only gripe with tubs is just that they don’t offer the same visibility as a tank or PVC enclosure. Even the “clear” ones aren’t really clear and don’t allow you to easily observe the animal without opening it up. But that has nothing to do with the animal’s welfare, it’s just my preference as a human keeper. I prefer the PVC enclosure with truly clear doors on the front for that reason, because I enjoy my snakes more when I can passively watch them doing all their cute little snake things. But I keep my snakes in tubs until they’re big enough for their adult enclosure, just because I can’t really afford to be buying multiple PVC enclosures per animal. Those enclosures are expensive. Tubs are a lot cheaper and are easier to re-purpose once the snake has outgrown them, so I’ve found they’re a practical and cost-effective way to house baby and juvenile snakes.
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Very well said Jennifer! Thank you for your support for us lowly tub keepers!
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That’s definitely an important thing for people to know, I think a lot of the association (including my own) with the word “tub” in reptile keeping are the empty ones with barely even a layer of bedding and absolutely nothing for enrichment.
That’s why I’ve really started to try and specify which tub keeping technique I’m talking about. I think tubs are nice as long as they are roomy and enriched, I just personally prefer vivarium’s and the benefits of them and recommend them to keepers with smaller collections.
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I’m keeping all the baby bulls in 41qt tubs until our basement is done and I’m done building their actual cages to go in the snake room in said basement. Should be ready mid-summer.
The tubs have worked out great so far. Easy to clean and cost effective. They all have ~3” of aspen for burrowing, multiple hides, some paper towel tubes and pieces of spider wood for exploring.
Like you, my only problem with them is viewing. These are fairly transparent but I still have to open them to really get a good look at the snakes. I considered using a rack for adults but I’d like to be able to see and observe them without having to “open” the tub.
I’ll be keeping the tubs for hold back grow outs and emergency purposes once they’ve moved out.
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Your bins sounds great!
As to your last point- I had a similar thought! I still have the “baby” tubs I kept both my snakes in when I first got them, and I am keeping them to turn them into Emergency Evacuation Go-Bins with substrate, some water dechlorinator, and other supplies in them, and I can also use them for Vet visits.
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All my animals are in the same room with me so if we ever have to evacuate quickly I will hopefully be able to just pass everyone out a window…….
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The time I was a disaster evacuee, I had to put my betta in a tupperware on my lap in our van. Sometimes you have an hour or even twenty minutes to get out and you grab what you can. I guess that experience left me wanting Evac plans for me and all the pets. On the brighter side if I needed to leave my house or just move the snakes briefly for construction reasons, I’d have something they could overnight in at some other location, too.
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I have old bins ready to go for evacuation enclosures too. Or travel bins for vet trips or whatever.
The rest I usually just re-purpose for storage. Or…new snakes in the future. 
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Many years ago I kept a ball python in a pillow case in the front pocket of a hoodie I was wearing during a snow storm where we lost power for 3-days. I know it’s not safe but she slept in there because I didn’t have anywhere else warm to put her. I did not sleep well because I was afraid I was going to roll over on her.
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Not sure if this video shows up or if it was brought up in the thread, but, Dav kaufmans reptile show from zilla goes to West Africa and shows them in nature. Its a great video and sheds light on how they live in nature.
Also, snakes brains are different and dont have the same thought process or feelings. I feel that we interpret what we feel is what the animal feels and that is not the case.
I personally feel that its ok to keep your snake how you like as long as you provide what is needed and give the proper attention/care for the animal to thrive.
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Thank you for post and video! I agree!
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