here’s a metal for guessing the cause. I got Madoka a mouse from there today and warmed it up to feed within an hour of purchase and it stunk of rot and had brown liquid (not poop) come out. I think I gaslit myself into thinking my husbandry was abysmal, but Schnitzel (my first regurge) is getting a tank upgrade out of it and seems to be doing well and doesn’t show any signs of food poisoning. What would be the next steps to make sure they don’t have any issues long term? Eros (my regure from last week) has been buried but he stuck his head out so I know he’s alive lol. Should I be making a vet appointment to check up on them to make sure nothing is going on interally?
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I’m sorry to hear it was indeed the mice. If you are US based, there are several companies you can order from that offer frozen feeders of consistent quality. Might be a bit more expensive, but they’re the same suppliers many breeders use. Since you have a small number of animals, Layne Labs is one to consider. They have a USDA inspected facility.
As long as they haven’t been repeatedly regurgitating bile or pooping excessively, the answer is usually nothing more than the typical regurg protocol of waiting two weeks and adding NutriBAC. I had a bad batch of feeders not long ago, had eight snakes out of fourteen end up regurgitating and all were fine on the next feed with added probiotics.
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I’m glad your babies turned out ok, I’ll check Layne Labs, thank you. I’m pretty upset about this since I thought they were a good local shop, but I suspect they might have gotten some mice that melted in transit and they just decided to sell anyways. I’ve bought from them for nearly a year and this is the first problem I’ve had so I’m surprised. I will be emailing them a photo of the rotten mouse and try to get a refund though. I’m hoping everyone will be ok, and we’ll be on the other side of this by November, and at least it lead to some husbandry improvements. Thank you again for your advice, hopefully I’ll have some good news to share in a few days if Schnitzel keeps down her pinky head.
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Unfortunately that tends to be the luck of the draw with purchasing from any shop. I know my own local has had issues with freezers going out so there was a period I wasn’t buying from them because of it. Thankfully I only use them as a backup when I don’t have certain sizes or can’t place my usual bulk order with my own supplier for some reason. Another benefit of ordering online and having them shipped directly to you is you can contact customer support if you have any issues with things like melting or a suspect order. Hopefully the shop does indeed get you a refund. A snake’s stomach is pretty acidic, so usually something slightly off won’t give them too much trouble. If they’re still looking good and active, do the two week delayed feed. If they take it and digest well, there shouldn’t be any worry. Obviously if you have any reason to believe they’re not acting right or things change, take them to a vet. Sometimes you have to do things like that for your own peace of mind. Other than that, I hope Schnitzel handles her pinky head, and everyone does just fine after this with no further issues! I’d also suggest investing in a cheap lunch cooler with an ice pack if you do end up buying feeders locally in the future. I know it has saved me many a time on a warm day with the smaller mouse sizes.
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Thank you, that’s a good idea. Typically I’ll keep them in a paper bag next to a chilled drink for the ride home, and it’s seem to do the trick for shorter trips. I’ll probably freeze a bottle of water to put in my bag with the mice tomorrow. I’m hoping to sync my purchase within <5 minutes of the return bus leaving and spend a little time getting coffee before to eliminate the risk of them melting. I’ll keep an eye out to make sure everyone is recovering well.
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I’m sorry to come back nearly a month later for advice, but would you consider watery poop a concern? I fed Eros on the second, and earlier today he was out and about so I took him out to handle a little and he ended up pooping on my table, and it was noticeably loud, which I haven’t experienced when any of my other babies have pooped on me. I also noticed when feeding him his first pinkie after the regurge his vent was slightly swollen and looked redder, but I wrote it off as him needing to pass urates. (He also has smaller than normal hemipenes and my friend suspected he was female before the vet popped him, so I’m wondering if that could be contributing)
Schnitzel is doing really well and has taken 2 pinkies without issue. She’s been out and about and passed healthy excrement. The one issue is I’ve fed both of these to her in her tank and she now strikes when I reach in to handle her. I might go back to feeding her in a separate tank to help, but I wanted to avoid the added stress. I know its controversial, but I’ve fed Madoka in her tank once or twice and she’d try to hunt my hand initially when I handled her in the following weeks, and every time I put her into her feeding container she’s ready for her mouse and will track my hand intently when I lower it in.
I’ve included a photo of Eros’s vent, and I have photos of the excrement but I’m not keen to look at them again.
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Generally snakes can have watery poops at times. You may want to post the photos so we can see if the contents look concerning. You can do so under a spoiler so they’re blurred. Believe it or not, corns occasionally can have very loud poops. All depends on the texture, amount of gas involved, urate content, etc. As for the cloaca, I’d keep an eye on it, and if it doesn’t resolve, gets worse, there’s any discharge, or he stops eating, take him in to the vet. I don’t know if yours would give an opinion by sending in the photo you took, but you could try. There’s also things like a betadine soak or putting a bit of antibiotic ointment without pain relief on it that you could try at home.
For Schnitzel, you could continue feeding outside the enclosure, or you could get a small snake hook and use that to deter the striking. You’d stroke her gently with the hook to make sure she’s not in food mode before you pick her up, and you can also use the hook to lift. There are others who may have better advice there, I’ve always fed my babies in their enclosures from the start, combined with regular handling they’ve never developed an issue with striking so it’s not something I’ve got a ton of experience with. The one adult snake I had that came to me with that issue, I just pushed through the striking and picked him up anyways, and he eventually learned I was not food.
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do you have any recommend brands for betadine? I actually handled Schnitzel earlier today, and she was stressed at first but quickly calmed down and relaxed enough for a calm 15 minute handling session. I did notice some discoloring on her scales which I suspect is from her burying in the (coconut husk) substrate, but I’m now overthinking it and worried it’s scale rot, so I’m planning to get some betadine to keep on hand in case it is. It was fully my neglect but I noticed her previous tank (which I only moved her last week due to forgetting to order lighting with the tank) had some mold. Interestingly her stomach looks fine, and the discoloration is only on her back around the scales, which makes me think its substrate. She’s been acting normally and has been out and about but I’m keeping an eye on it and will be soaking her and going to the vet if it is. The poor girl has had so much go wrong in her short life and I’m not taking any risks.
I’ll definitely be giving Eros a soak if it isn’t better by his next feeding Monday, and if its worse I will be scheduling a vet visit since I’m worried about any parasites or infections he could have picked up from the mice.
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Betadine is just a brand name for povidone-iodine solution, you can get generic if it’s cheaper. Available at most pharmacies, tractor supply stores, some big box stores. To do a soak you want a container (I use a lidded Sterilite tub) of shallow water about 85ºF. I put in a rock so the snake has something to anchor to and doesn’t freak out. Put the water in without the iodine and let the snake sit for a couple of minutes, because they’ll often like a drink first and you don’t want them drinking the iodine. After that, add the iodine solution until it looks like weak tea (videos are available on YouTube if you need a visual) and let them soak for 10-15 minutes, 20 max.
Glad to hear Schnitzel took well to her handling session! Scale discoloration definitely looks like it was caused by substrate to me. As long as your humidity isn’t too high, scale rot shouldn’t really be an issue. As for the mold, also unlikely to cause a problem, but keep an eye out for any respiratory symptoms just in case. Best of luck with your little ones, and feel free to come back with any further questions, there’ll always be someone around to help.
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I just read through this thread. I had missed it somehow earlier. Glad that things are moving in the right direction.
Noisy, runny poop/urates isn’t necessarily anything to worry about. I had corns as classroom pets for many years. There were quite a few times when one of the snakes noisily anointed a desk. I would keep an eye on Eros’s cloaca. Not necessarily a big issue but if it looks different now and doesn’t resolve within a week, you might consider a vet visit. The size of his hemipenes wouldn’t have any effect on his waste output, btw.
One quick note, if your temps are dropping at night below 80°F, you should bump up your nighttime heat settings. This is especially true since they’ve had regurges, regardless of the cause.
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Corn snakes need heat/belly heat, to digest their meals, esp. babies, or they will expel/regurgitate the meal. @caryl is so right about the 80 degree temperature. Regurgitation is so very hard on a snake at any age. I am just echoing what others have said. But it’s important enough to be said again.
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Thank you I’ll check it. I remember reading that 75f was the ideal temperature. I’ll make sure its at 80