Ok Riley sounds great and thank you! I didn’t think of the chat room! I hope others join! 
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Prayer is powerful. Amen to that!
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I am really, really sorry this is happening to you and your beloved little guys, here. I wish I could help, but I’m up in Canada and getting reptiles over the border is tricky and expensive. I hope you get an outpouring of material support from this forum and beyond!
As a fellow autistic person and someone who has struggled with housing discrimination, I feel you. (Especially on the justice thing.) It is especially, prodigiously hard to cope when stuff like this happens, with the housing market so garbage and the world kind of on fire around us all the time. It’s easy to get overwhelmed and burned out. Are there resources for autistic adults at all where you are? I find peer groups like that sometimes have hookups for things like housing, or leads on good landlords, and there’s increasing acceptance for self-diagnosis in some peer-run groups these days if that’s your situation.
It will be hard without your snakes, but you’re doing what you need to do to keep them and you safe, and you’re going to come out the other end of this sometime and be able to bring them home. Reptiles are patient.
(also applause at the line about landords; not every one of them is terrible but I’ve been through so many places that absolutely fit the bill for “bad enclosure”. If I can get my humidity right so there’s not mould in my snake’s enclosure, for goodness’ sake someone who owns a building human beings live in should feel responsible to do the same. To say the least!!)
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Hey there @auriea. Just wanted to say hi and we are thinking about you and praying things will turn around in your favor soon.
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Okay Update:
I have secured a temporary place for my animals. It is boarding. My plan b did end up pulling through. I will still have to rehome as many as I can stand to part with.
There are other complications now.
I am being harassed by the owner of the rescue. She is attempting to damage my reputation with the other rescue in the area, and is retaliating against me through my animals, which is as dirty as it gets. She is the reason that I had to make this post, and the final reason that my animals welfare is in jeopardy.
Given recent events, I now see fit to share the particulars of the situation, now that the other party sees fit to it being made more public than it ought to have.
When I brought in my animals for boarding, I was not given any paperwork to sign. In retrospect, that should have been my first major red flag.
I asked her if she would be willing to take my bp José to the vet as he is having another flare up. She agreed. But she wanted to quarantine him at her personal residence until he could see the vet. She had full possession of him for over a month. I was not involved in his care at all during that time.
When he went in, i wasn’t called, no questions were asked of me, no texts about medical history, etc. I was entirely removed from his vet care and that was red flag number two.
He needed testing to look into his chronic R.I.
I told her his whole history to communicate to the vet so that we would all be on the same page.
What I got back from the vet was this:
None of his history was communicated properly. None. It says that there could be a possible fungal component to his chronic U.R.I.
He had a year of black mold exposure before I got him, at least. That was clearly communicated as the main reason for the visit. It did not get communicated to the vet, so the care that he received was not adequate for his needs, and I was upset. He should have had his mucous cultured right off the bat.
I then took matters into my own hands and called the vet he was seen at to update them on his history myself.
Except… it turns out they did not know that I, his legal owner, existed.
Notice how the paper states ‘rescue exam’.
She told the vet that my José was surrendered to her rescue and that he HAD an owner. Not HAS. HAD. That is what the vet receptionist communicated to me on the phone when I called.
I had not signed any papers with this person at that point. Be it a boarding agreement OR surrender paperwork. She had no legal right to claim ownership of him at the vet whatsoever.
She got in trouble with her vet for lying to them after finding out that i do indeed exist, and that I certainly have not surrendered my treasured Jalapenio to her or anyone else.
She then blamed it on me. Saying that I went above her head by reaching out to the vet that saw my snake. And that she was going to lose her vet discount because of me. Also, that she wants my snakes out of her facility because I’m a liability.
It was only after then, that I was given boarding agreement paperwork to sign, to cover her mistake.
I read the agreement with my father. It’s just a standard agreement. It would have allowed them the legal right to take my animals to the vet without me surrendering them. It would have allowed me to be involved in my animal’s healthcare without jeopardizing her veterinary rescue benefits.
I’ve been wondering constantly since, why that paperwork was not given to me to start with. That would have negated the issue. It’s boarding paperwork, I should have been made to sign it before I ever brought animals in.
The day before yesterday, as I was in the middle of removing him from the premises, I find out that he doesn’t have his own meds, because he’s been on their stock of meds. I had to take him out of there without any medication in hand. Sure, it’s nice on the surface that I didn’t have to pay for meds, but once again, I never authorized that decision. It was never run by me, it was just made for me. By someone who had no legal right at the time to make medical decisions for my animal on my behalf without consulting me like that. So yesterday I had to rush to the vet on short notice to get him meds before he was due for his next dose. The craziest part about that being, this lady also would not tell me when he had his last dose. When i asked when he’d gotten his last shot, she told me to call the vet and figure it out. As if the vet would know if she’d followed their schedule to a T.
Even better, when I finally got him back from her care, after a month, he looked terrible. I gave him to her with a red nose. That’s it. He came back to me with a fully retained shed and WHEEZING. He doesn’t wheeze. I don’t let him get that bad. He’s in the worst condition now that he’s ever been in years… And it just blows me away… you can see it mentioned in the notes, even. She was telling me a couple weeks before, that she was cuddling him and hanging out with him at her house. Which also ticked me off, because he’s sick and she knows it. I don’t pay her to cuddle and play with my animals. I pay her to house and care for them when i can’t myself. What in her right mind made her think it was okay to touch an animal that’s supposed to be in quarantine anyway? That’s probably part of what made him worse.
Earlier today a mutual friend mentioned to her that I planned to surrender my STP Lilith to a different rescue up north. And yeah, I am. Because thanks to being kicked out unfairly, I can’t take her to the vet as soon as i wanted to. She has a URI too. She was supposed to go in a week after José on my next paycheck, but now she’s not going until i can get them all moved out of there. Which is more time and more stress on her body than she deserves to endure.
But this lady, who is the catalyst for all of this mess, came in while I was packing up stuff and asked me to surrender Lilith to her instead since Lilith was already there. I told her no, I would like to send her to the other rescue. She started yelling at me about how selfish I was for wanting to give Lilith to the other rescue. Supposedly because the other rescue’s owner had so much on her plate, her rescue does rescue too, and Lilith was already there… Which- what?? I’m a client. I can and should be able to work with whichever business I choose. I chose snakehaus because I have had bad experience after bad experience with her rescue.
That’s what happens when you treat your paying clients poorly in a capitalist economy.
And then she ‘informed me’ that she was going to be reaching out to that rescue regarding my intention to surrender Lilith there. Implying an intention to use her standing as the owner of a rescue and previous acquaintance with Sarah from snakehaus to destroy my reputation so i might not be able to surrender my animals locally at all. Which harms them more than it harms me. Especially Lilith.
My intention upon calling the vet regarding José was to advocate for him and his wellbeing. That was and always will be my responsibility as his lawful owner. If she hadn’t failed to advocate for him or care for him herself, she wouldn’t have gotten caught. It’s not my responsibility to protect her rescues interests. I can’t give myself her boarding paperwork. And i certainly didn’t authorize her to lie to her vet about José. Nor did i even request her to put José under her rescue’s account. All i wanted was for her to physically transport José to the vet that she sees just to see if they might have more success with diagnosing and treating him than my vet has. She was already making a trip to her vet with some of her own animals. That’s why i thought it convenient to ask if she’d just tag him along. I would have had him put under my name, i would have paid full price, (i was prepared for it) i would have purchased his own meds. But a lot of decisions were made for me and now I’m being harassed. My animals have been put in jeopardy. My José, my favorite, is in terrible condition. And now she’s determined to sabotage me. She needs to leave me alone. She has jeopardized my animals health and wellbeing, and she is responsible for some of them loosing their home. I do NOT want my animals in the possession of someone like her. She has proven herself vindictive, two faced, and malicious. She damaged me and my animals far beyond any help she claims to have given me.
But, thanks to a conversation i had with a concerned family member regarding the situation, i may know why this is happening.
My family memeber said: “people only retaliate like this for money or love, and this isn’t love.”
Turns out they know someone who used to run a horse rescue and actually got in trouble for something exacly like this. Now, i don’t have any experience in the back end of animal rescues, but according to her, ontop of the discount a rescue gets at a vet, they also get a little something something from the government for every animal under their name. This acquaintance with the horse rescue got in trouble for taking boarded horses to the vet under her rescues name and claiming they were hers, because she got unfairly reimbursed by the govt. for all of those animals. And by claiming they were hers and not signing boarding paperwork, she didn’t have to report the additional income from all of her boarding clients. Essentially, tax fraud. And that sounds a whole lot like what happened here. The owner of the rescue i boarded at did not give me boarding paperwork to sign until after her vet had found out i was the legal owner of José and not her. If i and my relative are right, then she had been attempting to commit tax fraud with me and my animals by ‘forgetting’ inform me about, or have me sign boarding paperwork with them. And then again by attempting to claim my legally owned animal, as her legally surrendered rescue, at the vet where he was receiving care. At this time, i am considering filing a small claims lawsuit. But i would like some input on this. If you own, or know someone who owns an animal rescue, can you confirm or deny the possible motive behind this attack on myself, my animals, and my reputation?
I’m young. And I’m sure she thinks that because I’m young, I am not willing to defend myself. But she put my animals in jeopardy, and continues to jeopardize them further. Like or hate eachother, we all want our animals to be safe and well cared for. That’s supposed to be the core uniting value of this hobby. No matter what, that’s supposed to come first. She has crossed that line multiple times, and I absolutely will do what is necessary to protect and defend myself, my animals, and anyone else who might, in the future, be targeted by her in a similar fashion.
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Oh man, I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with all this. I think most of us, as animal-lovers, assume that people who get into rescue work do it because they truly want to help animals. And most do, but there always seems to be the odd one who lets their ego rule the roost and muck everything up. Sadly I’ve also known a few recuers, vets and vet techs like this as well. I think they probably started out with good intentions, but somewhere along the way, they lost sight of their real mission and started to make it all about them.
I’m not a lawyer, so I can’t offer any legal advice, but I would suggest that you don’t move forward with any legal action against this woman until all your animals are out of her care and in a safer situation. Filing a suit against her is just going to antagonize her further, and your animals may end up paying the price. I do think you might be onto something with the whole tax fraud thing (if indeed reptile rescues get government subsidies per animal, I really have no idea if they do or not). I can’t understand why she’d misrepresent Jose’s situation the way she did unless there was something in it for her. It’s hard for me to chalk up that degree of wrongness to her being genuinely forgetful. I’d perhaps understand if she didn’t remember his whole backstory, but lying to the vet about him being a surrender… that’s not the sort of thing she just “forgot.”
Again, I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with all this. Are all your animals with the new rescue by now? I hope so. If not, I’d just be very careful with how you interact with this person until you’ve gotten them all safely moved. You don’t want her to take out her frustrations with you on your animals.
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I have half in the new situation, and half with her. I’m not going to lie, I’m not certain about the saftey of this new situation either, as the person i am boarding from, (my reptile caretaker that helped me when i was in the hospital) is the said mutual acquaintance that told the rescue owner that Lilith was going to be surrendered elsewhere. I know they are good friends, and i am concerned about her choosing sides if i decide to go after the rescue owner in court.
I need to visit one more time to get the rest of my animals, and that will be two weeks from today. Leo, Eros, Monty, and Link are still there. I’m looking into getting rid of as many as i can stand to loose right now so that i can lessen the burden when i have to change boarding residence again.
As far as interacting with her, I have spoken to her as little as possible regarding any part of this situation. I only mention what is especially necessary. I have been more patient and respectful than she deserves. I will continue to do so as much as possible while in her presence, animals or not, because if we can’t have a mature conversation, then at least one of us is going to remain professional.
That being said, i have been recommended to record all of our interactions from here on out. And i cannot overlook the importance of that, in terms of court evidence. From my understanding, Washington requires that individuals be informed that they are being recorded. They do not require their consent, but they must at least be informed in order for recording someone to be legal in a court of law.
That is the biggest thing I am worried about when I see her next. I still have to visit next week to maintain the animals that are still there. I could avoid going there next week, but that would not be fair for them, and I could use the chance to get more evidence of her failing to do her part of our new agreement. I have asked her to spray the enclosures of my animals during the week when I’m not able to do so myself. Even before all of this came to a head, i would frequently come in and see that my animals, especially the boas, were at like 30% humidity in their enclosures. Leo was in shed amd his humidity was 30%. The agreement states that she will do everything in her power to take care of their best interests. But she has not been doing that thusfar.
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I’m hoping, that in the even that she DOES attempt to retaliate against me by tampering with my snakes directly, i can get her in court for that too, because as of now, she has a legal obligation to care for them to the best of her ability.
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Since I don’t know the laws about recording in WA (or honestly any other state), I’m not sure what the best course if action is there. Are you legally required to verbally inform the other party? Or would it be legally sufficient to just go in clearly recording on your phone? If she asks, you could just say you’re documenting things for your records. If you feel that might be too risky, you could at least take pictures of temp and humidity readings in the enclosures.
If you haven’t already, I would talk to the person who runs the new rescue and tell them that you’ve had issues with the owner of this rescue, you know they have history and you’re not trying to put her in the middle of a contentious situation, but that you’d like her commitment (ideally in writing) that the situation with the other rescue won’t affect the care of your snakes in the new rescue. Right now, it doesn’t matter if she’d be with you or against you in court, you just need to make sure that your animals are safe and cared for. Hopefully the owner of the new rescue will be willing to put aside any personal BS and do what’s right for your animals. You don’t have to go into detail about the issues you’ve had, just acknowledge them and ask that she not let that situation affect your animals. Hopefully she’s more committed to caring for animals than she is with “taking sides.”
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I feel the need to clarify:
The new boarding situation is not the same as the other rescue.
The new boarding situation is with a private keeper. She does volunteering at the old rescue and fostering with a couple different rescues.
The second rescue in question is the rescue i intend to surrender Lilith to. She has an acquaintance with the lady with the old rescue.
It is a good idea, nonetheless, to ask for a statement in writing to protect my snakes from extra unnecessary involvement.
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Gotcha, my bad, I didn’t realise there was a third person/boarding situation involved. Since this person has cared for your snakes before, hopefully they can be trusted to do right by them. But getting a commitment in writing couldn’t hurt.
I just feel so awful for you having to deal with all this. Years ago, I went through a period of several months where I was essentially homeless. I was fortunate enough to have some options for couch-surfing, so I wasn’t sleeping on the streets, but I had to board my two cats for a while, and I remember acutely how stressful that was. I got lucky and found a really good boarding outfit run by a wonderful woman out of her home, but it was still stressful. I felt like I was failing them, I hated not having them with me, I wasn’t even sure if I’d ultimately be able to keep them, I’d stay up at night wondering if I was being selfish and if it would be better for them if I just found them new homes or surrendered them to a rescue…it was awful. And that was when I at least knew they were safe and cared for. I can only imagine how much worse it is when your animals aren’t even receiving the proper care because of stupid human BS. I wish I lived closer to you so I could offer more than mediocre advice.
Hang in there. Your animals are so lucky to have an owner who cares so deeply for them and is willing to fight for them. The situation you’re in now isn’t your fault, and it’s obvious that you’re doing everything humanly possible to ensure they’re being looked after. It’s a real shame that the person who was supposed to help you is now just creating more stress and problems for you, sometimes people just suck. I really hope the new boarding situation works out better. Let me know if there’s anything I can do to help. We’re all rooting for you.
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What a miserable situation, @auriea . I’m so sorry that all of these extra complications have been heaped on your head. Why can’t people just do the right thing?
I don’t know the ins and outs of funding rescues but I can’t fathom why that woman would have misrepresented things to the vet to the degree she did unless there was something in the misrepresentation for her. You’re right, she didn’t just forget.
I don’t know the legalities involved. Is there a legal aid number in your county? They may not be able or willing to advise you regarding the rescue situation, but they should be able to answer questions about recording interactions. If legal aid can’t answer that, heck, the local police might. If you have anyone who can go with you and keep a cool head, preferably very quietly, when you go to the rescue, I’d take them along. They can be a witness if necessary. Their presence may constrain the rescue person from giving full and free rein to the inner crazies and hostility.
It’s also a good idea if you keep notes on everything. This is in addition to any recording which might happen. Audio/video files are good. Text/handwritten records are good. Include date, time, the location or the phone number, who was there, the substance of the interaction, and your thoughts/impressions. Keep this in the file which I’m sure you’re already keeping at this point.
I’m so sorry that this is happening. We are indeed all pulling for you and for the animal’s you care so much about.
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