The Snake I Sold Died, Suggestions?

All Reptiles
21

I don’t think you did anything wrong, I’ve had many interactions with breeders on MorphMarket and even a few outside of the internet through mom and pop interactions/small pet shops, etc. In my 40 years (25+ in keeping/rehabbing/rehoming) I’ve only had two memorable incidents involving animals I’ve taken on and questionable medical status. (Aside from ones that were disclosed to me prior to taking on and me willingly still accepting it).

Without going into a “War and Peace” sized diatribe regarding the two incidents one was a leopard gecko acquired from a mom and pop pet store (which was a bit on the lean side) and after trying to fatten her up and some fairly pricey vet visits we were told she had crypto and she passed before we even had the results.

Other incident was a hognose that showed up exhibiting neurological issues, also after extensive vet visits turning up basically nothing (although a blood test was not able to be completed due to her size…and she has since passed…. Sadly. Although I don’t think it was anything on the breeders end (I believe it might have been an issue in the shipping) either overheating or perhaps exposure to some sort of chemical in transit.

I’m not trying to climb up on a soapbox and preach my way of thinking but I have a tendency to at least keep in contact with the breeder for the first few weeks or months to intermittently let them know how my new family member is settling in as well as prior to receiving I ask questions about the animals husbandry at the breeder so I can make sure to follow it as closely as possible to make a stressful situation on a new pet as least stressful as possible.

Also especially in an animal that can in a literal and figurative sense go “belly up” after transport. Reptiles, birds, and aquatic animals being some of the few in my limited experience that can potentially die from unknown causes (without extensive testing, and even then sometimes it’s just congenital)

In my opinion they waited entirely too long to at least voice some concerns that something may be wrong. I understand it’s the holidays and people are crazy busy but I know if an animal I had recently picked up wasn’t eating or regurgitated a meal I’d definitely hit them up to ask if perhaps I’m doing something wrong or they have a preference in food type. (A random example being I had a snake at one point who refused to eat white frozen thawed rats. He liked darker colored ones).

Pretty much it’s up to your best judgement as far as what you feel you should do. It is a difficult predicament to be in and one I’m hoping I don’t have to contend with if I ever start hobby breeding.
(Have some experience in breeding fish and aquatic invertebrates and much like some reptiles even they can have simple “failure to thrive” issues.

Personally if it was me as the buyer I’d eat the 500 dollar cost (at least that’s what my vet charges) to do the necropsy if a seemingly “fine” animal (aside from the regurgitation) randomly passed away.

Also as another aside you’re one of the many people here I have done business with and you’ve been very courteous and caring and my “little peanut” as I call her is doing great. Also don’t think anyone would actively sell a sick animal to someone else without full disclosure in this day and age where you can basically put someone on blast all over social media.

You shouldn’t beat yourself up too much over the situation even though I can’t even grasp how much it must hurt to lose an animal that you had under your care.

Sorry for the huge rant.

-Jen.

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22

Just wanted to say that I applaud you for doing your best to try and find the right course of action. Getting feedback from your peers about the situation and trying to do the right thing is very admirable. :+1:

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23

22 days is too long. I personally would do nothing. Too many variables in those 22 days. They should have contacted you as soon as there was a problem

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24

She was under our care since October 27th and was steadily regaining her weight back from double-clutching. I do recognize that there are many other things to consider. I just want to find a solution that won’t hurt my store ratings, as I am slightly afraid of a bad review.

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25

The buyer has actually scheduled an appointment with their vet to do a necropsy and as of present, has only asked for a refund in the event that she proves positive for the things I had tested for.

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26

@verinium I definitely understand that and it’s partially the reason why health guarantees are usually shorter, to account for any potential mistakes in husbandry. I feel like I could’ve done much more if they had simply let me know she was having problems after her first regurge.

@jenfalconer-nidhoggnoses You’re much too kind, Jen. I appreciate it. I do ask for people to give me updates (as you know) and keep me posted for multiple reasons. I recently reached out to a new customer from pure intuition when they didn’t update me on having picked up the little guy and was really happy that I did. They were going to put the little guy in a 40 gallon enclosure. Thankfully, I was able to include some basic info and talked to them about stuff and asked them to please keep in touch. I really do care about our animals and would never sell anything I didn’t feel confident in. In fact, we still have 2 adults from the bulk group but have not listed the other because, quite frankly, she needs a lot more time to get back into shape.

@mblaney Thank you. I really appreciate that. I just want to do the right thing but also remember that I’m a business. It’s a hard line to walk.

@nikkip I do feel that the 22 days is just too long to have waited to let me know they were having problems.Thanks for the feedback.

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27

Don’t know if it’s appropriate to ask for results about the test but I’m kind of curious just as something to add to my “internal library” of animal information. (I’m kind of a nerd when it comes to medical and veterinary info I’m probably in the wrong field of work.) I just like to learn and hear of other peoples issues and experiences in animal husbandry (and also may be able to help someone I run into down the line) but I’d love to hear the findings after the test is done.

Mind you I’m no vet but kinda wondering if maybe impaction from ingesting substrate/improper temps/general stress or a combination of. Or something else entirely.

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Not to sound “hippy dippy” about it but I believe sharing information and experiences makes us all better as reptile keepers. I honestly wish the internet had been a thing when I got into reptile keeping. I remember raiding the library and ordering books at the book store as a kid and teen as well as pestering my parents to drive me all over creation to talk to people who actually had some experience in reptile keeping and marine aquariums (what I was really starting to get into as an older kid) thankfully I had very understanding and animal loving parents. These forums are invaluable since there’s a lot of “gate keeping” and holier than thou attitudes on Reddit and other reptile forums. I think it’s everyone’s job to be welcoming and teach the newbies and up and coming keepers because they are our (and our beautiful and countless species’ on this planets) future and conservation.

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On a quick tangent, thats one of the best things about MRC. It isnt facebook. The holier than though mentality holds no ground. You can be 100% in the right, but if you are agressive about it, everyone will let you know you are overstepping. Its honestly the only reason im comfortable sharing the good and bad ive experienced here. The only way info spreads is if people are willing to talk and listen. Have a controversial opinion? Voice it with evidence and keep it up to date, sure many will disagree, but even if you are wrong, the info you gather can be valueble, so its still worth the discussion :slight_smile:
Anyways, i dont intend to reply past this as i dont want to Hi-Jak the thread, so if you wish yo talk, feel free to PM, im always up for good discussion and will see you around, i mainly wanted to say that you had a good attitude towards sharing info openly.

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30

Yeah I got off topic. Just hope everything works out for Jordin. Goin back to listening.

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31

@urbandinos

I’ve read through this thread and you’ve received lots of really good answers and great points have been made.

As a seller you have the option of filing a dispute through MorphMarket , and if you do, we’ll investigate and come to our conclusions based on all the evidence given by both sides.

You can do that by filling out this form: https://www.morphmarket.com/incidents/

This will help us in our investigation as well as create a permanent record in our database.

After you’ve filled out that form, an emailed copy of it will be sent to you. Please reply to that email with any additions or changes you want to make to your original statement, as well as any relevant attachments such as photographs and/or screenshots of text messages that took place outside of the original Inquiry thread.

I can’t speculate on a final ruling based on just this one side of the story, but based on what is here, I can’t see anything that shows you are at fault or owe the buyer anything more than a polite and sympathetic note saying there’s nothing you can do.

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32

22 days is too long. Hate to sound mean, but its all on them now. Either way you choose, they will still bad mouth you to the public and/or give bad reviews. Even if you did give a refund, they still will. Have they gave you proof the snake actually died, and not just saying that to get some extra spending money out of you. If anything, I’d just tell them, no refunds after 72hrs. If something happens like death, then store credit at best. And let them deal with it how they want. Like I said, whichever you choose to do, you’re going to get dragged thru the mud by them. So may as well do whats best for you.

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33

While I do not breed hoggies, I will say this;
If you look at my store policy, it’s long. Looooong. Every ad I write says “Please Read Full TOS Before Inquiring.” My TOS first sentence is “it is assumed you have read these full terms before inquiring,” and the purchase is an agreement to all terms listed. Health policies are everything until that snake touches their enclosures. I do not know other people’s set ups. If they want testing done outside of what I do, they pay for it BEFORE the animal ships. If it’s positive, I reimburse for the test, and animal, if they have paid already.
The fact they fed before a week in quarantine is the first red flag. They fed too large of a meal, second red flag. Then to add insult to injury, they fed AGAIN before 2 weeks. Did they offer nutribac? Did they give it electrolytes? Doubtful. But even if they had, you weren’t the one that did these things. What they did is purely their fault. And it sucks putting in that much work and love into an animal for someone to kill it less than a month later. Again, you didn’t do it, and for them to suggest you are responsible is blasphemy.

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35

I don’t recall the mention of how many times the snake in question was tested before being shipped?

36

Store credit would likely be an acceptable compromise if you choose to do so. Providing they can show proof (through necropsy) that it was a pre-existing issue and nothing they did. I don’t breed hoggies either (yet) but I’d be very apprehensive about sending another animal out to potentially be mishandled and killed if it was a mistake on their part. (I probably sound harsh but this is the way we handled it when I worked for an exotic animal shop)
Not to mention it absolutely KILLS me when people don’t call/write/text the minute they have an issue. Never understood why some would wait till the point of no return/death to raise concern.

(I’m also shutting up again I’ve been way too mouthy/opinionated in this thread) lol

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37

Sounds like they put it in an enclosure that was most likely to warm. Ive seen this before. People will just use those heat pads thinking there for all reptiles an first sign if regured is of heat issues. Sounds pritty simple. Need to ask them specific questions about there husbandry setup, and they will always try and blame you the breeder

1 Like