Hi everyone, I very recently got a 6 month old 107g female ball python. The breeder said he only feeds her every 14 days, and she missed that because she was shipped to me, and has waited about a week since then so I was very eager to get her a meal. I bought a small frozen mouse that was supposed to weigh 12.5g, dethawed it, and weighed it in the package before feeding it to her. It weighed 26g in the package, so I just assumed it was adding extra weight. I fed it to her, and she got it down fairly quickly, but it looked a little big for her. I reweighed just the package and it only weighed 3g, so the mouse itself was about 23 grams. Should I be too worried about her being harmed from this or regurgitating? I know it should only be between 10-15% of her body weight which the mouse exceeds. I’m trying not to check on her, but last I saw she was entering her warm spot hide, but her head was a little shaky, she is not a spider morph. First time keeper, so I don’t have any experiential knowledge, and can’t find anything quite like this when googling, so any help is appreciated.
I always eyeball the prey and the snake’s thickness around its middle. I think your little one will be fine. I would not disturb her because she is doing what she is supposed to be do doing and that’s digesting her meal in her warm hide. In the wild snakes are opportunistic feeders, from eating huge meals to making do with small meals.
If she does regurgitate don’t stress. Just give her a few weeks for her body to recover before you offer her an another meal.
Follow up with updates if you feel the need
I assume all husbandry is on point but just do a quick once over to make sure its all good. Try not to poke you head in the cage every 2 seconds or pic them up within 2 to 3 days after feeding.
It takes time to build up stumach acids for digesting food after a regurgitation. Its kind of like a human getting the flue. There are differences between regurgitations types and I assume this is a few days after feeding and can be from to large prey item, adjusting to new environment, over feeding and improper temps. I would wait a minimum of 10 to 14 days before feeding again to allow time for the gut to heal. it can become serious if they keep regurgitating. Recurring regurgitation will cause you to wait another couple weeks before feeding again which can lead them to loose alot of the stored fat/muscle. Luckily, snakes have fat reserves that allow them to go several weeks to a few months without eating so dont panic just yet. I think you will be ok but keep us posted.
When in doubt go 1 or 2 sizes smaller then fatest part of snake, especialy, the 1st feeding after regurgitation
Thank you for your response. She has not regurgitated yet, so I’m still hoping she doesn’t, so far, despite my worrying, she has done just fine.
Thank you for response! So far she has been just fine and thermoregulating like usual. I’m trying not to check up on her too much, just once before I went to to bed and once this morning, so I’ll leave her be for awhile now.
You are doing great. When she does emerge from her hide just take a pick inside to make sure there is no regurged mouse.
I accidentally fed the wrong sized rodent to one of my bps and I just knew I was going to find a stinky mess afterwards but all went well. However I made sure to be more careful from then on!
Thanks for the update!
As others have said, your snake should be fine. Like @caron, I usually just eyeball prey size, and aim to feed prey items that are roughly as big around as the thickest part of the snake’s body (at least when they’re babies). Snakes are capable of swallowing and digesting prey considerably larger than that, so if they get a rodent that’s a bit bigger than the “ideal” size, it’s usually not a problem (though I wouldn’t recommend feeding huge prey items routinely).
In general i have found with snakes that yearlings to sub adult have done better with 1 size smaller and oldest developed prey availabe for calcium. I like going 1 size biger after yearling and partly into subadult because there organs are well established in comparison to size of body. Feeding 1 size up will help boost that growth stimulation without having organ failures after those first 2 years of development and into the future. With experience you will be able to guage what prey to use based of body appearance whether thats more fat/calcium/or more muscle tone. Gender plays a vital role in prey size just as much as time in season and frequency.
All snakes are different and spending time observing/interacting with you new companion will help understand those nuances.
Ive always been told not to feed anything bigger than the tickest part of your snakes body.
That is a good rule of thumb to follow and will prevent you from feeding to large of a prey item.
A Lrg rat can range in weight and can be a smal xl rat. This can be applied to what ever size prey you feed. Therfore going up in size is not going to hurt your animal if it is slightly bigger then the thickest part. Obviously dont feed an xl rat to a king snake or a pinky to a grown red tail boa. Snakes are flexible which alows them to consume larger prey items.
My rule of thumb I use and tell anyone who asks me is to follow the 10 - 15% of the body weight of the animal. Reading that you received a 6 month old, 107 gram ball python from someone is a red flag, and I’d suggest never doing business with them again in the future. By 6 months they should be well over 250+ grams (unless it was noted that they were a hatchling with feeding response issues or born between 12 - 30 grams).
10% - 15% ends up 1 size smaller to just slightly bigger. Same rule of thumb.
There are other morphs that can wobble besides spider. Or other reasons a snake can wobble in general.
That said, I think there’s a lot of misconception about how much young snakes actually do move their heads. Think of instead puppies or kittens. It’s fairly similar, a BP at 107g is still young. Even adults sometimes when excited about feeding will shake a little. There’s been a bit of an obsession with ‘spider wobble’ that is just weirdly focused on just that morph and it’s made people over critical about even the smallest headbob
While a little bit on the large side, this one time should be fine. Especially if you wait the 14 days between meals. Obviously if she does regurged(she shouldn’t at this point) wait at least the 2 weeks after to feed her. You already got some good advice about feeding for the future.
And if you still are worried, remember they won’t always find perfectly measured proportions of prey to eat in the wild. This one time is most likely not an issue.
Except for the fact that sizes like “large” or “small xl” have no universal meaning, can be different between suppliers, and in some places aren’t used at all. Saying “one size bigger” conveys no real information and can cause confusion. When giving feeding advice it’s best to use actual weights in grams so the information is universally understood.
Refrence the thread and plenty of examples given in refrenced to thickest part of snake. There is a universal meaning to size and often accompanied by weight in grams which give range when talking about rodent size. Go to any rodent supplier and you will see what I am talking about.
There’s a difference between breeders and hobbists though…
Not everyone buys from rodent suppliers. The local reptile shops don’t always list their rodents by grams. At least the boxes of frozens at some box shops have weights on it. Some also use different terms like ‘weanling’ or ‘crawler’ or ‘hopper’ and those can be anywhere from 2-4 wks difference sometimes.
Using 10-15% of your snakes weight is the easiest way to get the size of rats you need. Many reptile shops do have scales to weigh the rats on. But again, the sizes may not always match quite right from one to the other. Not everyone wants to bring their animals to the store to size up the prey next to the snake.
This is all just assuming the snake is a healthy weight as well. The feeding amount and timing can change wildly depending on health and fat ratios.
Still a universal meaning when using terms like hopper, fuzzy, weened which also are acompanied by a wide range in weight/age/size. When in doubt ask the question.
If you want to be on a strict precise regemin then weight everything out. Hopefully you dont have a large collection and your suplier does that for you.
Otherwise, eyeballing is just as efficient and your snake will be fine if your a little off.
Yes, when the weight is listed. That’s what we’ve been saying.
What is that supposed to mean?
I raise my own feeder rats. And because they’re in my own care, it’s easy to get the size I need without having the supplier/middle man. I weigh what I need to bag up and freeze into size categories and feed what looks right to the snakes. LOL. It doesn’t need to be a precise regimen.
This isn’t chem class. The 10-15% ratio is a guideline to make things easier for people without the ‘just eyeball it’ experience a long term keeper like you or I have. It’s not a hardset rule. I wouldn’t want people posing rats next to their snakes and judging them…Or potentially being bit by a stimulated and hungry animal.
So I am for sure opening myself up to critique here. I am a hobbyist as most people here know. I have never weighed a snake to compare it to the weight of a feeder rodent before feeding said rodent to the snake. Common sense is part of the equation. If one wants to overthink the process then by all means one needs to use percentage/weight method for peace of mind.
I don’t know why you need to question my animals and statements? That’s rude.
It’s easy to find my shop link in my profile. Feel free to look at reviews, sold animals or my current male ball python for sale. Heck, I just posted a thread of this year’s hatchlings you can find by looking at the profile info.
If you feel that the advice that people have also offered here as petty, I think that says a bit more about you. The worst I did was correct only one of your spelling mistakes since you called it strict and precise.
I absolutely find it worth it to raise my own feeders. I actually like rats as pets, so I try to take some care in raising them. I can guarantee the quality of the rodents and that they aren’t accidently thawed out in shipping. I had more problems buying live feeders and ending up with ringworm. And once I had over 10 animals on rodents It’s absolutely more worthwhile to buy bulk or raise your own.