8-Ball Complex Birth Defects

I would like to ask all of your help to learn which combos in the 8-Ball complex have an increased chance for birth defects.
So far I am aware of Super Cinnamon and Super Black Pastel: chance of duckbill, rare chance of kinking.

Are there other known combos or supers producing defects?

8 Ball Complex

  • Black Pastel
  • Cinnamon
  • Enchi
  • Het Red Axanthic
  • Huffman
  • Jolt
  • Razor


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All have the wobble (neurological defect)
Also you cant breed two champagnes cuz its fatal.

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Morph Issues [Ball Pythons]


The chance is a lot more probable than rare.

Has a wobble because it has the spider gene in it pastel spider. Bumblebee is a combo not an individual gene.

Super black pastel , super cinnamon, and Cinny black pastel(eight ball) are the only problem combos specifically in the gargoyle/ 8 ball complex.

Only visually show wobble in super form


Back when I made that list, I got data from bigger producers, biggest data point being 4 kinked animals out of over 40 supers. That’s about as rare as the reported data of getting a female from a male maker banana. Which we also call rare.

I also noticed anecdotal evidence that some people never/hardly seem to have issues and other have a high ratio of it. Seems the particular animals seem to play a factor and not just the cinny/BP gene exclusively. Ive noticed the same with super lessers and bug eyes.


That’s 10 percent I wouldn’t say that’s rare in my opinion.

I don’t know if I honestly believe them especially when bigger well know breeders are moving away from these pairings.

I’ll admit though i am a bit biased based on my own experiences with super black pastel and super cinny, which the pairings where multiple different animals(of both sexes) with multiple origins. And all were unrelated as well.

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Should cinnamon black pastel be added to this? Thanks for the replies.


Most of the data was from the bigger breeders at the time.

Unrelated pairings is a toss up. I can’t speak for the 8 ball complex but with super lessers, I had 1.2 lessers (1.1 related) that never threw a bug eye’d BEL for 3+ years of breeding them. Then the male was replaced with a bel (related) and still, no bug eyed babies. On the other hand there people who mostly throw bugged eye’d ones with unrelated animals. Some claim the same with 8 ball stuff. again anecdotal and yes small sample size. But you can see trends.

One of those female last year I paired to an unrelated male, made 1 bel that had slight bug eyes. So I won’t be repeating that pairing again.

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Im bumping this as its a good question, the list says super BP and super cinni cause issues, since they are allelic, would a cinni BP share the same issues?

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Yes, the BlkPastel/Cinny compound heterozygous have been shown to have duck-bills and kinks


Thanks! It kept on circling around the supers and i didnt want to make assumptions haha