A new line of Axanthics?

[ljannett99]

@armiyana Thank you and I appreciate the response…

@armiyana

You imply that they are not the same. They are the same according to genetic testing. The same way that MJ and GCR are the same. The difference is a floating trait that has not been nailed down and not the axanthic trait itself. Much like the TSK ‘stormtrooper’ that cannot be reliably recreated.
Or if it is somehow different it’s a lost line like the 3rd line of butter/lesser RGI is trying to nail down and extremely rare.

My apologies… I wasn’t inferring on the Axanthic part… but the Black part… As far as I know, VPI started the Black Axanthic line without knowing they had TSK hets to begin with… I concur with you that the Axanthic in Black Axanthic and TSK are the same… Just that I’m implying that TSK by itself doesn’t have what gives the “Black” to Black Axanthic… Basically, I was going off on the concept of double homozygous… For example, let’s take Desert Ghost Axanthic… What if someone produced something exactly like that out of blue but later on, babies start appearing as a “normal” Axanthic and it was proven to be the same Axanthic as one of the other lines and we didn’t know exactly what gene was doing the desert ghost if you get what I’m trying to say???

@armiyana

Wording it like this is just saying it’s a line bred trait like Orange Ghost in Hypo…which is genetically the same mutation but with polygenic traits to make the yellow and oranges pop

I gotta admit I have to study up on how polygenic traits work… but then again I do recall Justin Kobylka mentioning something about how he thinks that there’s another gene at work for when it comes to Black Axanthics… And that it hasn’t shown up somewhere yet… He never mentioned anything about Polygenic traits that I could remember…

So bottom line, after @t_h_wyman chimed in while I was typing this up, Basically from now on, Black Axanthics should be referred to as “Black Phase” TSK Axanthics??? The selective line breeding for the darkness is a whole lot new information and does change the game as I was under the impression that the first Black Axanthic came from a pair of unknown TSK hets…

Again, thank you all and I appreciate it!!! Now, we can go back and make this all about SRP Axanthic (My apologies to @mcgoveran for hijacking this thread for a bit)…

[mcgoveran]

@ljannett99

Again, thank you all and I appreciate it!!! Now, we can go back and make this all about SRP Axanthic (My apologies to @mcgoveran for hijacking this thread for a bit)…

No apology needed. I’m all about discussion fueling knowledge and discovery. Back in 2023 when my first Axanthics hatched, the last thing I would have expected was that it was a new gene. I was sure it would turn out to be VPI. I’m very thankful to the people in the MorphMarket community, the guys at @RGI and many others along the way for helping me sort this out!

[armiyana]

@ljannett99
No worries~
This whole thread started as a speculation on if it was ‘one of the 6’ and now it’s whittled down to ‘none of the 3’ because of advances in the genetic testing. The only real big question left is to get enough of a sample of joliff axanthic…but that is difficult since there are so few of them produced and the odds of that are even smaller than it being 2 random unknown hets for the other mutations.

A lot of it is just clarifying it and making sure that the info stays consistent now that we’re learning. There is a terrible habit of people just jumping head first into things without the researching genetics or breeding now.

As far as the naming…I personally like to keep the line names myself (a habit I picked up in leopard gecko breeding)… For example my lessers are are from lesser line but I do have one butter. But they are the same gene. I do like how MM has the disclaimer on the ads that tells you which is the identical gene.

Polymorphic is tough because it’s little line bred traits that can be lost over time and outcrossing. And then there’s just so much we still haven’t figured out yet. But a lot of the things that made butters and lessers look so different originally were the polymorphic traits. Once they began to spread the polygenic traits weakened and they became to difficult to distinguish from each other. And then genetic testing showed it was the same mutation. (Except for a mystery 3rd line that IS testing different)

@mcgoveran
Okay! Hahah, I was going to say if they all ended up as blackheads I would wonder if something else was going on there too.
I can’t wait to see how the outcrossing looks with other genes. Especially looking forward to hypo or desert ghost combos.

[t_h_wyman]

@ljannett99

So bottom line, after @t_h_wyman chimed in while I was typing this up, Basically from now on, Black Axanthics should be referred to as “Black Phase” TSK Axanthics???

No, that was not what I was getting at. Bottom line, as far as I see it, is that any animal that is labeled as “BlkAx” should just be relabeled as TSK because that is what they are. If someone wanted to undertake a selective breeding project for ‘Black-Phase’ Axanthics they absolutely could, but they could opt for any line of Ax to make that project - e.g., ‘Black-Phase’ VPI or ‘Black-Phase’ MJ, etc.
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@ljannett99

I was under the impression that the first Black Axanthic came from a pair of unknown TSK hets…

I recapped the history over in the the other thread