So quick synopsis because I know this has been a long thread, and then a photo dump!
2023 I had the surprise of my first twins and an axanthic. I wasn’t sure who the sire was at the time which is why the axanthic was a surprise, but I have since confirmed it. I also hatched out C’thun who was the first “mystery” baby.
2025 The original, C’thun, is now two and I tried to pair him with an albino conda female. He took a very long time to figure it out and I think missed her window so she ended up with slugs. I’ll be trying them again next season. There also hatched out the albino “mystery” baby I already showed, and an axanthic! I will introduce them both in the next post with the photo dump.
I have yet to figure out how to use the carousel feature so please forgive the individual pics.
First up the Albino! I am just in awe of this guy. He takes my breath away every time I look at him and I am extremely excited to watch him grow up.
So after two years of watching C’thun, and now the 2024 babies, grow as well as a bunch of research I have done I believe I have a pretty solid theory as to what these guys are. I believe they are a mutation of the Cinnamon gene produced by Jose Castro in Europe. I also believe this mutation is acting in a co-dominant (I think I’m using that term correctly but I’m no scientist) fashion with the Anaconda (Conda) gene.
This gene shares many similarities to Cinnamon but there is some difference too.
The snake hatches out quite dark and lightens as well as pixelates as it sheds, the same as Cinnamon
The normal ones, like C’thun and last year, have black eyes like Jose’s cinnamons. The Albino has red and Axanthic has dark but not black.
The head stamp is solid with a small simple band
The belly has a blueish grey tint and white mottling, shown below
The biggest difference and reason why I think it is a mutation is because Jose’s cinnamons still have a distint pattern and saddles. Every single one that I have produced have no saddles and the only distinguishable pattern is two stripes on either side of the dorsal. In C’thun these have faded and are barely visible now. If it were true Cinnamon it should express on top of the normal Western hognose patterns.
I believe it is only expressing with Conda and the two together are creating an overall patternless snake, much like a homozygous conda (superconda). This also makes sense to me since only the mom has conda and I believe, but have not proven, that this new gene is coming from the father. Statistics wise if this gene were acting on it’s own I would think I’d see more of them rather than the scattering and low numbers I have as of yet.
For clarity, this is a theory I have. I could be totally overthinking it and they are just weird cinnamons
My hope is to gather more information on this theory once C’thun sires a clutch. Or one of his siblings.
For ease of conversation though I am going to start calling them cinnamons or cinnamon mutations.
I am also suspicious it may be sex linked as all seven I have hatched so far are male. I hope I’m wrong on that but time will tell.
I think I touched on this before but I am going into this project with much caution. Two cinnamons from last year developed kinks, one quite severely. I do not know yet if this was circumstantial or if there is an issue with the gene. I will be watching these two new guys closely and I hope to prove out the health of the gene next year.
Okay! I think I info dumped enough so here is a bunch of pictures! Final count is 2 axanthic condas, 1 axanthic, 1 axanthic cinnamon, 1 albino conda, 1 albino cinnamon, 3 normal condas, 3 normals. All twelve are male so either I am incredibly unlucky or something funky is going on (sex linked?)
And lastly, this little fella deserves his own mention. When I tell you he stole my heart, oh lordy! He is the first hatchling to just relax on my fingers so calmly. He is the sweetest most precious thing. I almost hope he gets an attitude otherwise it will be so hard to part with him.
Wow, that ‘rough textured’ patternless look is incredible when paired with albino! I love how dark the normal babies hatch out, they look singed or like burned parchment - I hope this project continues well for you!
What would the process be to determine if this is/isn’t cinnamon?
It truly is incredible and I so wish I could just take a picture with my eyes because my phone never does justice to how intricate their coloration is in person.
The true test to determine if it’s cinnamon, or compatible at least, would be to pair with a European line cinnamon. Unfortunately I do not have the green to purchase one so I am just trying to make do with what I have and learn as I go.
This is all so incredible to take in Erin! Also a lot of hard work on your part is paying off! I don’t know a lot about morphs in general but I know enough that you are onto something here! And Please make that sweet little one curled up in your hand a keeper!
Thank you! It’s been a long and exciting two years. I’m stoked to see where this goes.
I really wish I could keep the little conda. He has a spot in my heart already and I’ve only known him a couple days. Unfortunately I have limited space and the two keepers from this clutch are already going to displace another project I had wanted to get.
A handful of babies before and after sheds. There’s another two or three I think that are also about to shed any day. This pairing has always produced a lot of red hued normals and condas. The third baby surprised me as I wasn’t expecting it to shed out with such a bright, clean base color.
Number 3 does have some red in his saddles. I should get a picture of him with one of the other condas. That would be a good comparison since the other two condas not pictured are really red.
Wow! I stumbled across this thread and what a journey oh my gosh, never have I gotten so invested in a clutch before this is so fascinating… was it ever determined what on earth that darkening mutation is? It’s so beautiful! Reminds me of the Swiss chocolate morph when they first hatched out. So pretty!
I believe them to be a mutation of Cinnamon. Cinnamon was discovered by Jose Angel Castro in Spain. The biggest difference I have seen between his and mine is that I haven’t hatched any “normal” cinnamons. Mine seem to only show visually in combination with conda. If you take a look at his page you’ll see what I’m talking about.
It’s still a work in progress and I’ll know more once I get a clutch by my home grown cinnamon male.
cool!
so either I am incredibly unlucky or something funky is going on (sex linked?)
he tong fed again tonight. Three meals down!
Hugs to you Erin! Hang in there! 
my camera tends to make everything 
brown 
