African Fat Tailed Gecko Traits - Category upgrade! [DONE] [1577]

I would call a Snow with caramel a “Caramel Snow”
As Amel Oreo (very very rare but still can be produced) is more of a true form of “snow”.

I would probably switch zero to super zero (basically a different line of patternless) as well in the Recessive section and put normal zero next to stinger. Supposedly it’s just a het patternless marker / different “lineage” of patternless at this time being (as far as I’m aware). A stinger is just a non striped zero so you could also have a “super stinger”.

And to clear anything up, there is a “super” version is stripe as well. But you can’t tell the difference between a 1 copy stripe and a 2 copy stripe unless you breed it / know the paring.

You could probably add starburst and granite as they are a poly genetic trait just like tang would be but not as common these days so it’s up to you really I personally don’t think they are necessary at this time may lead to more confusion when people search.

Just my opinion on what I would personally change. Thank you! And I can’t wait.


There is also a line bred trait similar to granite called calico


Aberrant, tangerine and Jungle are also all line bred traits as far as I know


I believe amel Oreo has proven to be lethal

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You’re going to get a lot of debate on Stinger. Though, it is a polygenetic / line bred thing, associated with het Patternless. I would keep it listed with poly / line bred stuff. A “Super Stinger” (a false name, but a good descriptive tool for marketing) literally is a Patternless with the ability to produce Stingers.

Zero is the combo of Stinger + Stripe, and is NOT a simple-mendelian-recessive gene, so I would change that. It is the same poly trait that Stinger is, but just with a Stripe on it.

Super Zero is the combo of Patternless + Stripe, with the ability to produce Stinger / Zero.

If you would like to contact JMG Reptile, they can confirm the above. It was originally discovered by his dad when he owned JMG, and was found on some wild caught individuals, I believe. We discussed this together loosely before, but the more prominent breeders in the community would agree on the above, as well.

As far as everything else you listed, it looks correct to me.

Other combo names:
Snow (Oreo + Amel) …Unfortunately Oreo + Caramel has the same combo name. The AFT community still hasn’t fully duked that one out yet. Not sure how you want to approach the dual-name in your tags.
Purple Haze (Ghost + Oreo + Patternless) coined by Jessica Smith of Gecko Babies

AND since it will not let me reply above to a comment by Hellfire Exotics about how to tag Stinger /Zero / Super Stinger / Super Zero, I was directed to edit my previous replies instead so here we go:

Separating Super Zero/ Super Stinger from Zero and Stinger, will just create a dual-tag by accident that would indicate the same gene.
You’d have a bunch of het Super Zero and het Super Stingers, as well as a bunch of Zeros and Stingers, all different tags, but meaning the same gene. This will make it difficult for users looking up one or the other, and not getting the entire pool of animals that would actually meet their search criteria. One label for each should be used, not two.

It should be uniformly put under either line bred, OR recessive. It’s a tough one, since it isn’t a simple mendelian trait.

Personally: I would go for putting Super Stinger and Super Zero in as combos? Patternless + Stinger = Super Stinger and Patternless + Stinger + Stripe = Super Zero, since, essentially that is what they are. Stinger and Zero just associating with the pattern that occurs on the heterozygous Patt forms, and when you hit visual Patt, it masks the Stinger and Zero - but they are still there and should be accounted for. Combo would make this easy, and people using the search tool would have a better time locating what they need to. When they input Stinger or Zero then, they’d get ALLLL the results of them and their “super” forms, not just half the results like they’d get if their “super” forms were input as different genes completely (which they are not).


Almost all Amel combos have proven lethal, with the exception of a few lines of Amel. Oreo Amel has been produced before, which disproves its complete lethality.


Amel oreo has been made 100% . More than once. Even whiteout Oreo amel as well.


I wrote this out a cpl weeks ago…

Hope it helps


Stripe is not recessive


& while not easy, all Amelanistic combos have been successfully hatched now…

Amel Caramel/WO Amel Caramel
Amel Oreo/WO Amel Oreo
Amel Patt/WO Amel Patt
Amel Zulu/WO Amel Zulu


Not true, just that certain lines of amel are more compatible with other morphs.


Stripe is dominant, not recessive

I was hoping you’d post this. It’s so easy for new people to understand.


Stripe is dominant, and a gecko can either carry one copy of the stripe gene, or two copies of the stripe gene. Both heterozygous and homozygous stripe look the same.


Just wanted to chime in and say that we agree Stinger and Zero are not recessive. We have bred Zero x Zero and Stinger x Stinger, as well as Zero x Normal and Stinger x Normal in multiple lines for several years, and proven that they are definitely not recessive genes. At this time, best guess is that they are markers for the Patternless gene, and some Patternless will produce Zeros/Stingers and some will not.


Hey there!
Zero and Stinger are a very sensitive topic. The general understanding by now is, that both are just a Striped & “Banded” variant of another phenotypical look for HET Patties. This simply explains the “SuperZero or SuperStinger”-Look, which is absolutely identical with regular Patties!

With Amel I would differentiate between normal Amel & Ghana-Line. While the Ghana Line is compatible and appearently causes no issues, visual, normal female Amel have similar egg-laying and fertility issues as Caramel. All the female Amels my friends had laid unfertile eggs, if they even laid, and I could observe issues in my HET Amel female as well.

Zulu is nearly always accompanied by translucent belly scales (some Het. Zulus also have them) And pied markings on their feet!

There is no such thing as “SuperStripe”

While Abberant can be line-bred for, it often randomly appears in WhiteOut hatchlings and can even appear randomly out of any pairing, even though it is rare :slight_smile:


I know very late.
But anyone able to explain the (2 copy) to me?

Amel stripe to amel stripe

Babies would be-
Amel stripe
Amel stripe (2 copy)

So what does that mean exactly?
Thankyou to anyone who replies! :blush:


You probably already know this but I’m going to start from the basics and hopefully a lot of people can learn from it. Each allele has two copies of a gene. If they’re the same it’s called homozygous, if they’re different they’re called heterozygous. When breeding the animal will pass on only one of the alleles per offspring. So if it’s an amel, there is a 100% chance it would be passed on each time because both alleles have the gene. If the other animal also has amel there is a 100% chance it would be passed on each time because both parents are passing on the trait. You can use a punnett square to see the possibilities that would result from each parent passing on the trait. For stripe each parent would have a 50% chance of passing on the trait to each offspring. A punnet square would look like this. A capital S represents a stripe allele being passed on. A lowercase s represents a non-stripe allele being passed on.
. . . S |s
S| SS| Ss
s| Ss| ss
(The dots represent spaces because otherwise it won’t line up.)
These represent probabilities so there can be variation and it likely won’t follow the exact chances.
Looking at this 25% of the offspring will be homozygous stripe. 50% of the offspring will be heterozygous Stripe. And 25% won’t have stripe. The homozygous stripe is referred to as stripe (2 copy) the stripe will be referred to as stripe. And the homozygous normal won’t have stripe at all.


That’s brilliant Thankyou,
I’m pairing them next month as she gets here Thursday, so when I saw the (2 copy) online, I was baffled, thinking when I rehome babies what do I say? Do they look the same?
But that’s helped understand it all.
Fat tails are new to me (breeding them that is, had my male for a few years now)
Hopefully this helps others also! :blush:


3 posts were split to a new topic: Stinger x Striped Oreo het Zulu