Are UTHs outdated?

It’s a never-ending debate. Regulated UTH is good for tubs. Regulated lamps are good when you need the air heated too, and not just a spot on the floor at digestive temps. No heat source REQUIRES regulation if you know what you’re doing, but most people should probably use it.

Reddit hobby reptile subreddits are mostly terrible, unfriendly places where obeisance to the cult of reptifiles is mandatory. One exception is r/cornsnakes, which has an excellent mod team who are fairly critical of the cult. And they’re mostly breeders too, so anti-breeder hostility isn’t welcome there. They still get jerks, but they deal with them if you report them.

7 Likes

Thank you everyone for the replies, and taking the time to educate me that practices have in fact changed over the last 10 years lmao! I’ll definitely look more into overhead/light heating as I look to upgrade my setups in the future, though currently UTH on thermostats is my primary system and seems to have worked just fine. I absolutely understand that things change as we learn, but I truly do feel like it’s ridiculous to throw a fit over the mere suggestion of using a UTH over bulb heating. I also ended up getting muted because the mods felt I was “spamming” them while messaging about the situation. The ban and mute should be lifted in the next 30 days, but I doubt it’ll make a difference as the whole situation definitely turned me off from the subreddit as a whole. It really reminded me of my tumblr days!

Thankfully I haven’t touched facebook with a 10 foot pole since high school. I think overall the whole mess just solidified that for me, this community is the best place to go to when I have questions. People tend to be a lot more receptive to critique when it’s not presented as a slap to the face!

5 Likes

Very wise on your part Elijah! :+1:

4 Likes

Yeah, I wish we could all have beautiful display enclosures with more than enough room for an individual animal and as naturalistic setups as possible…

But they’re always different matters for everyone outside of those wishes. It’s great that some keepers can manage things like that. But not everyone has space, time or energy.

For me it’s energy, space and cats. Lol.
I already have my reptiles taking up my space in my rental home. Anything more and my housemates are gonna have “The Talk” with me.
Energy is a premium with me, especially after having 3 surgeries to recover from over the last year. I’m behind on a lot of my usual maintenance.
And cats… They’re not allowed in the room unless I’m there, but even so, it became habit over the years to avoid overhead lights except an occasional UV strip because of the cats trying to knock over everything. It was difficult to manage when I was in different housing situations.

As long as you’re doing the best you can and keeping the parameters you need to with your animals, I’m usually pretty chill. But I definitely have my own animals to worry about instead of complaining on /whatever or FBpages. I’d much rather be here with a better community and helping fix those important parameters when people ask questions.

7 Likes

I’m so sorry, Elijah. That kind of thing is why I don’t generally participate in FB and Reddit about husbandry.

:backhand_index_pointing_up: This. This community is THE place to get information, support, and respect. For most species, there are multiple ways to do it right. Continuing to improve husbandry with the goal of helping the animals? Sure, count me in. Count us all in. But we do keep in mind that successful approaches can vary among people who care very much about their animals.

This point is valid for many species. It is certainly true for corn snakes as well. I still recommend a regulated UTH for babies, certainly until they’re feeding reliably in their new homes. They’re vulnerable when they’re full of food and digesting, and they know it. A regulated UTH allows for them to hide beneath the substrate or in a warm hide. When they feel that they must choose between going somewhere they feel safe to digest a meal and having to digest in a place they feel exposed, most choose not to eat.

6 Likes

Amen to that sister! :clap::ok_hand::+1:

6 Likes

Just echoing what everyone already said - that the issue prob has less to do with what you said than the fact the reddit reptile subs IME seem to have a toxic holier than thou culture when it comes to husbandry, and are completely intolerant of anything outside of whatever trendy rigid dogma they are currently following. Not only that but they’re very adversarial about it, coming straight out the gate with beratement. I think yes, guidelines exist for starting off with, but there isn’t always a one-size-fits-all formula. Every animal and situation is different, life has nuances and every field evolves by trying unestablished things.

I feel heat mats have their place (with a regulator obv). N of 1 but my 20yo BP she has been on a heat mat her whole life. She is a “rescued” nidovirus survivor who is chronically seropositive but I had her stable for over a decade on her heat mat setup. When I tried to switch to overhead heating methods couple years ago out of trying to “upgrade” and follow the latest recommendations. She refused to bask, started wheezing and having bad sheds despite all the temps and stuff checking out and trying all kinds of configurations. So I gave her heat mat back and she has been doing fine again since :woman_shrugging:t2: That reddit sub is welcome to block her for preferring UTH heater :joy:

My boas do have overhead heating and I’ll see my big girl basking at night under the DHP once in a blue moon but she also has one hide with a heat mat (sorry) and sleeps in it every day. My baby boa did fine in quarantine tub for months with only a heat mat, she seems to be thriving. Someone come confiscate my snakes for abuse.

I think at a certain point we can get lost in the details on how to get there but imo the ultimate goal should be a thriving snake and that should be the focus.

7 Likes

Second this thought.

5 Likes

I think heat tape is far superior to UTHs, though I would avoid both in applicable set ups where other options are available, but I definitely wouldn’t attack anyone over their use of it and don’t pretend that either are actual abuse like so many do. In standalone tubs, tanks, and viv set ups, heat tape and UTH are not my favorite ways to heat since it requires the room to be so much warmer than if the enclosures had ambient heat. In racks, it’s almost good enough to provide a little bit of ambient heat as well. Especially hatchling racks, not as much in my V70 racks.

And like @autumngeckos mentioned, ambient heaters provide both ambient and belly heat, so in set ups where that’s possible I do recommend it, though it’s not required to be successful.

I do notice marginally better digestion rates with RHPs vs heat tape, but not enough it should make much of a difference in general health. For that reason, I set my heat tape a little higher, at 95-96 measured with a temp gun under the bedding. Setting at 90F didn’t seem sufficient for my boas. I don’t have experience breeding on it so idk how that compares to heat panels. But…I get the same level of vitriol from lighting bros when I suggest RHPs and not Tungsten or flood lights. They act like anything short of cooking a snake like a rotisserie chicken is insufficient so far as to make no effect at all.

One plus to a heat bulb (any kind) is you are a lot more likely to be able to use it unregulated vs any other heat source, just by changing the wattage and location, but there’s also fewer options for regulating a bulb than a panel or heat tape/pad since many require dimming and you can’t use pulse or ON/OFF without risking the bulb blowing/exploding or the light turning off and on throughout the day or rapidly and constantly (lowering the life expectancy of the bulb). CHEs can handle ON/OFF better, but pulse is probably pushing it, so dimming is my preferred still. Heat tape/pads can burn if unregulated, and RHPs can overheat an enclosure if unregulated. I would never use either of those unregulated, I firmly believe it’s mandatory for those sources of heat. Bulbs, it can be optional, but beneficial, especially if the reptiles don’t have a dedicated room you can keep at optimal temps, which can make lowering wattage size or increasing distance more difficult to do successfully while trying to maintain a proper thermal gradient.

That’s unfortunate they’re so awful. I don’t frequent the bp subreddit much because bps aren’t my cup of tea, but I guess I should start adding in a caveat of not joining in the discussion if I suggest any of their care guides in the future…the guides seem pretty solid to me but the actual sub seems really toxic.

@sugarhillballpythons Wow they sound like a bunch of winners. lmao While I do enjoy a bit of nitpicking here and there I can’t believe they take it that seriously. :joy:

@deanaii The hate for breeders and racks on Reddit gets me every time. lol The boa subs aren’t too bad, the snakes general has its moments for sure. They’re constantly ripping apart Snake Discovery specifically in there whenever discussion of either/both come up, more than general gripes over either topic. And on that front the debate on those are definitely worse than what I see on FB…and at least you don’t get the racist, antisemitic, or other bigoted language you get on 4chan when discussing differences in care. Haven’t been on there close to a decade, and it’s basically dead now, but at least Reddit and FB have some leg up on that front. :joy: I like FB in general because it’s by far the most active place to discuss reptiles, though it has its toxic moments. I take a step back every 5-7 years or so and take a break, though it’s nowhere near as bad now as it was in 2016 and 2017 pre crackdown on animal rules. And yeah Tumblr was ruthless back in the day, I mostly saw it unfold in periphery discussions; the ones I followed generally didn’t get that much heat. My top 5 favorite accounts still breed boas and I followed them to FB. I have tried a couple times to go back but that type of posting just doesn’t interest me anymore.

@armiyana omg yes! Efficiency is sooo important when you own more than a dozen or so snakes. I much prefer my racks over my vivs on that front. Easier to keep some extra tubs on hand, swap out and clean up later vs spending hours on a viv emptying it, scrubbing it, cleaning it, and letting it dry all in one go. And less sq ft to worry about too. But people will villify you for that, and act like you’re a hoarder even if you’re otherwise providing proper care and can maintain your animals. It’s like they have this preconceived notion/stereotype of people who use racks, and that’s all it can ever be.

@mkmtsd I had no idea snakes could survive nido like that. :flushed_face: Sounds like she’s heat intolerant because of it, and yes even healthy snakes I find don’t generally need to be baked inside and out. Add in health complications that can make it an actual health hazard to do so, and I definitely see the need to change up husbandry.

9 Likes