Just got a comment deleted from the BP community on reddit for suggesting UTHs with thermostats - am I out of date on care practices? Last I knew it was preferred to temperature monitor with UTH options over lighting temps. Has this changed or am I right in challenging this?
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The situation got escalated to a ban, so if I said anything wrong I’m open to exploration!
Is it not ideal to use a thermostat with a UTH for pythons anymore???
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Undertank heaters aren’t recommend for snakes or any reptile really they provide unnatural heat
I found this useful when setting up my snakes
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There will always be debate and unfortunately often unfriendly “discussions” regarding the practices implemented in captive keeping. Sure under tank heat isn’t the most natural form of heat source, but you’ll find plenty of reptiles out on blacktop after dark sucking up the radiating heat from them. Id much rather suggest someone use uth over an unguarded light/heat source. If the uth was so terrible we wouldn’t see the mass success in the hobby with the use of it.
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The general recommendations have changed yeah, for the most part overhead incandescent lighting is preferred regardless of species, since the heat from bulbs penetrates the skin better, providing deeper, more efficient heating. It also allows for a deeper layer of substrate, which in turn helps with humidity. Most reptiles also tend to dig to get AWAY from heat, so it’s a bit counterintuitive to provide heating from below. The infographic Crystal linked explains it somewhat, but there are three types of IR heating, IR-a (short wavelength), IR-b (medium), and IR-c (long). UTHs, and CHEs for that matter, only emit IR-C, which is the weakest type of IR, which barely penetrates the skin. It’s the type of heat that a rock that has been laying in the sun for a while will emit, compared to IR-A which is what sunlight feels like. A reptile basking in the morning sun will naturally be experiencing both. Incandescent lighting provides mainly IR-A and IR-B, with some IR-C, which means it mimics the sun much better. And by placing a rock or something underneath, you get the same effect as a UTH, while still getting the benefits of the IR-A.
That being said, places like Reddit and lots of FB groups, are absolute masters of the moral olympics, to the point where they tend to completely lack nuance, and it’s all about one-upping eachother with their care. Dont get me wrong, advancing care and always learning and trying to do better is not a bad thing by any means, but it shouldn’t be a competition. Someone will post a cute video, and all they will care about is pointing out everything wrong with the setup, even if the setup is fine, albeit maybe lacking something according to their standards. UTHs are generally discouraged, mainly because there are much better options, however they can still be used supplementally, and/or in quarantine setups, and there’s no reason to ban someone for suggesting them, especially if the person is open to discussion, considering how it’s been the norm for so long.
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r/ballpython ? They’re the absolute worst community on reddit. The mods have deemed themselves experts on all things ball pythons and I’d bet I’ve forgotten more about BPs than they know. They deleted two of my comments for breaking “Rule 3” but each time didn’t tell me why specifically, but simply to “look through all of the care instructions provided in this sub.” Oh, and one of them got snotty because I said “ball pythons can be a finicky breed” because ball pythons are a species so my use of breed clearly meant I knew nothing about ball pythons.
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r/ballpython is so bad I made them ban me. LOL. I have a rule. Avoid husbandry discussions in large groups or subs. There are always those “know-it-alls” that will absolutely respond in the most condescending b.s. manner if they feel something you said was wrong.
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I’ll keep saying this over and over again: r/ballpythons is, in my opinion, one of the most aggressive and authoritarian reptile groups I’ve seen. Though I barely scroll through reddit as is so I’m sure it gets worse.
I find it ridiculous that you got banned for pressing a genuine topic that wasn’t even harmful to suggest in the first place. What happened to the “mother of invention is necessity” and open discussion about different ways BPs (or any animal for that matter) can be ethically cared for. Everyone has different methods for animal care that end in the same outcome of the animal being comfortable and healthy.
Those “moderators” have lost their minds 
Something that ever so slightly goes against their views/rules gets banned… smh.
I also feel really sorry for newcomers that just want to learn who go there, they must get torn to shreds…
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I can understand why they said you’re wrong…but wow. That’s such a silly thing to complain about. And to escalate to say you know nothing is wild. Reddits and Facebook groups can be so frustrating.
@emfraise UTH are still used very often. They won’t be going away, but they will start being frowned on as the hobby moves on. Groups online now go to extremes in some cases to where they will call people abusive for not giving a scared baby BP a 4’x2’x2’ enclosure with UVB.
Heck with is almost exclusively my heat source atm. I’ve been dipping my toes into overhead, but it’s such a frustrating battle between space and management. I can’t tell you how frustrating it is having been through so many expensive broken bulbs over the years when a regulated mat or heat tape is so reliable. At least there have been improvements made for the more modern equipment is making it easier to get into those heat forms.
Any unregulated beat source can cause issues. UTH is the most talked about for it because of how easy it can be to injure an animal with an unregulated source. But I have also seen some nasty CHE cage burns. Or dehydration from overhead incandescents being too hot. Management and maintenance are extremely important.
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Yeah, I get it… I used the wrong word, not because I don’t know better but because my brain sometime lags behind my fingers or my mouth. We have a saying around here “Words are hard.” which my wife and son use often when I’m talking. LOL.
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When they delete your comment, the auto message even says something to the effect that if you discuss the comment deletion publicly you will be banned and that if you post about it any other subreddit, you will be banned. “OUR WORD IS FINAL!”
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Oh I was just thinking of the common saying “[whatever] is a finicky breed”.
It holds true for MANY of the animals humans have commonly domesticated. Dogs, cats, pigs, horses and so on… But we haven’t really done the same with reptiles. We mostly dabble with genetic mutations on the existing species. Polygenic lines of most haven’t really expanded to the same extent except perhaps in some tangerine leopard gecko lines.
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Ah… lol. It was in reference to how some ball pythons are about eating… they’re notorious about going off food and there’s no explanation for it. However, in any online social group if you ask why your ball python isn’t eating be prepared to be told your husbandry is horrible and you need to do a bunch of things differently to make your snake eat. About 90% of it is b.s.
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Weren’t you advocating for using heat sources without a thermostat? I’m pretty sure that’s frowned upon in most reptile communities…..
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I wasn’t “advocating” for anything. But when using overhead heat from lights, it’s not that hard to get it right without a thermostat. You can move the lamp up and down while monitoring the temperature and find the spot that works for that set up. UTH and CHE, different story, I never use those without a thermostat.
In fact, in that particular thread, I just neglected the thermostat, not intentionally just because I don’t typically go in to the smallest of details in message threads. There is a company that makes a great dimming thermostat connected to a light hood. I’ll have to dig back through my Amazon orders to find it if anyone wants to know which one, I use them on my overhead fixtures.
That was the first post they deleted, I just let that one go… no argument, my bad, I shouldn’t assume everyone has enough sense about them to set up an enclosure with a 100W heat bulb without a dimming thermostat. The second post, I have no idea what it was about. Some dude was asking about trying to get his snake to eat and something I said was in violation of rule #3 but I have no idea what it was.
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@emfraise If I were you Elijah I would stay in a “galaxy far far away” from both Reddit AND FB in regards to discussing ANYTHING. You will get, for the most part, sane conversations here. You will get solid advice.
Tbh I did not read this entire thread before commenting. I just wanted to say that my reptile vet recommends UTH as she says that snakes need “belly” heat to digest food. Right or wrong that’s all I have ever used. I’ve never had an issue. Breeders use regulated UTH (tub) in rack systems…..
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This is what I had always believed in with UTH.
I don’t really like heat lamps at least for higher humidity needing reptiles, because its so dehydrating, if I were to go with overhead heating I’d honestly prefer CHE or DHP over lamps for BPs in a full enclosure setting.
In a breeding rack setting I believe UTH (heat tape) works just fine when managed correctly with temperature control, its not hard to do at all. I’ve never really seen BPs in full enclosure settings sit out and bask for long periods of time, if any at all. I’ve seen that they prefer to hide in a warm spot over sitting out in the open in direct light.
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Yep overhead heat will most definitely dry out a tank that’s got a screen lid. But being a tub keeper I don’t have this problem. No matter what method of heat is used it should be regulated.
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I recently spent about $1500 to replace every on/off thermostat on my rack systems and enclosures with dimming thermostats because of the dangers of on/off thermostats. They generally fail in the on position and let the heating device run unregulated until someone notices it or it catches something on fire.
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Holy cow! That’s a CHUNK of change!
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