This is why I love ball python genetics! It’s so much more complex than other animal genetics. I have been driving my boyfriend crazy with explaining dominant, co-dominant and recessive genes and combination genes. And I’m not an expert, I just think it’s amazing!
3 Likes
Can i ask has anyone ever looked at genetically identifying what the difference between morphs actually are, im from a science background and im wondering has anyone ever tried. we identify alot of things based on genetic markers, we can do this process alot quicker and easier than ever before in terms of the technology we have now. We can test for human disease based on genetic markers, im thinking it would take all the guess work out of identification of what the morph is and if you have something new. Im wondering if there is any genetic material in a snake shed that could be used as they are easy to get from a snake without live tissue or blood etc…
Im guessing snake breeders would use a service like this, depending on cost etc…
Just a thought ive been toying with
We know that the morphs are genetic mutations on an allele of a gene. The mutations are passed down and cause the pattern and color change. If the mutations were sequenced then a library could be created for what mutations are associated with which morphs and then this would be possible by taking a mouth swab and sending it in. This has been done with lemon frost leopard geckos and it was proven that it was the same gene that caused the cancerous tumors. If this were done for all leopard gecko morphs this library would be possible and that swab test for genetics would be possible.
1 Like
Are all the mutations in balls on the same gene??? That would make it even easier, it wouldnt take long to build a library theres not that many morphs, if you look at all the different types on sale. Would breeders pay to know for sure what genes they have in a new snake.
1 Like
This diagram is useful to determine that. I think they can occur anywhere on any of the chromosomes but I’m not positive on that.
1 Like
There are several groups currently working on it right now, I know there’s a lab at McGill University who has identified the causative gene for piebald, and there’s a group out of Eastern Michigan University who are working on albino, lav. albino, and ultramel.
It’s still not an easy project because it involves sequencing mutliple ball pythons of each morph (which will cost about $1k), and comparing the genome with a wild type reference (which is not currently publicly available and annotated). There isn’t a huge amount of funding available for ball python genetics (unlike cancer or alzheimer’s) and there’s a limited number of people who are geneticists and also interested in ball pythons.
Also, no, definitely not. Coral glow/banana glow is sex linked, so it’s on the sex chromosomes, but the rest could be anywhere.
Oh yes it definitely would, we’re talking 150+ traits, and some are allelic so even once you identify the causative locus, the nature of the varient would need to be determined (deletion, SNP, copy number variant, etc)
We’ve discussed why this is so challenging in some other threads, I can’t track them all down but here’s one Spider BP Research
1 Like
Cheers for the response, im used to working with human illness that has deeper pockets i guess, i may have to do some digging, is most of research you know of usa based?? Just got me thinking earlier, i watch and read so many articles where people are unsure what is at play in the ball, would this be the simplest way of a definite answer.
Can i ask you said about doing multiple animals of same morph, do you mean same morph or morph family like bel etc, i would of thought that if the morph link was genetic like human eye colour, they would all have same mutation at same place. Base mutation or sequence etc… Sounds like a fascinating project. Maybe if i win the lottery. 
A every representative of a given morph should have the same mutation at a given locus (with some notable exceptions, like Albino), yes. But, to be able to confidently call the specific mutation requires a statistically significant number of individuals that carry the mutation being interrogated to ensure that the change at the genomic level that is found is consistent. Given the number of “silent” mutations that occur across a genome, if you only looked at a single representative of any given morph, odds are you would not be able to call which of the many small changes you found was the absolute source for the mutant phenotype
2 Likes
Is this the paper you were referencing?
Yes it is!
1 Like
That is seriously cool and makes you wonder where the future of the pet market might be. If they can create a piebald BP using CRISPR, then I’d imagine eventually they’ll be able to use this technique to create designer snakes when more research is concluded on other genes. Imagine creating a pompeii in the lab. The question is, will they get the funding for such an undertaking? Then there’s also the ethical considerations when humans start playing God.
I’ll have to check that out it seems like it will be interesting
1 Like
Reptile Gumbo had one with Her as well a few months back:
And THP recently had Ben Morrill on as well discussing his lab participating in a similar project:
5 Likes
Exciting times with the teams identifying morph mutations and the potential testing getting cheaper.
I’ve long been in the minority that I like possible hets. Years ago I swore some people hated them so much it was better not to even mention. Like they would pay more for an albino than an albino possible het axanthic because they didn’t want to risk being disappointed by a possible het.
I’ve proven many possible hets and they allowed me to start working towards a project long before I could have bought a 100% het. For example, I bought a possible het monsoon male I think looks likely to be a het while 100% het monsoons are still out of my reach.
But even though my days of buying a new morph lotto ticket may be drawing to a close I’m very excited about testing. Right now I’m spending years (and $ on feeders and many hours cleaning) growing up possible multi recessive het females and I would love to be able to narrow down a to fewer animals to work on and sell the others as normals or confirmed lesser order het combos. Would also free up space for more projects.
Also, I think available testing will encourage outbreeding. Rather than inbreeding to produce two different double homozygous animals to breed together to produce 100% quad hets you could just breed two different double hets together and test to find any 1 in 16 quad hets. With more people able to make and identify a specific quad het combo hopefully breeders can find each other and exchange unrelated pairs.
6 Likes
I am new to ball pythons and have got my first male. I got him from a very reputable feeddepot that also sells a nice variety of reptiles. They had bought the snake as a forfeit owner didn’t want anymore. He is supposed to be a fire pied but the guy at the shop who breeds BPs seems to think he may be more important genes like possibly an OD fired pied. Is that type of testing for genes available?
We’re a good ways away from there being tests for all the Incomplete Dominant genes. A good number of the recessives have been located and most of the Yellow Belly complex has been as well. Eventually there will be more complete testing available through Rare Genetics Inc. but right now it’s somewhat limited.
For something that simple, try posting some photos for the community to ID we should be able to tell you what you’ve got going on in that combo.
5 Likes
Congrats on the official release, could a updated list of morphs needed be put up? I would love to try and contribute, also, originally i believe single genes were wanted, but since some of them are now figured out, if we have a desired gene that also has a gene already IDed, would that be OK, since the extra gene wont be mistaken for the desired one?
2 Likes