Brand new to the snake world…and I’d like to pose a question; asked a couple of times already - but now, with a slight twist.
BPs all fine and well. Nice colours, nice morphs, nice everything… But:
Feeding issues (indirectly wasting money - F/T can not be “recycled” a second time around etc.)
Slightly higher humidity requirements (not the end of the world); and a bit more sensitive to humidity variations.
(Mostly) nocturnal
A bit too much of a “door stop”; sitting in the corner, looking beautiful…and that’s it. Not very interactive.
Here comes the flip:
I’ll be housing in a 1800x600x800 (for those who can’t handle the metric system - 8ft.x2ft.x2,5ft.)
BPs are VERY docile by means of temperament. You really need to get yourself into a fix before getting popped by one. Now trying to re-translate that into Boas…which will suit the setup.
I am (potentially) considering:
The Crawl Cay Boa
The Cay Caulker Boa
Dumeril’s Boa
…all quite difficult to find (here in the EU at least) - but not impossible.
From the info provided - if I were to swop the BP to one of the Boas given…which do you think might be a good option to consider?
I am ideally looking for something a bit more “social”, high to very high docile temperament and a bit more interactive than the BP, but at the same time not something that will give you a pop just because it feels like it.
With the BPs it seems as if you have a bit more advanced warning before a pop comes; with the Boas (even if being handled, you standing with the snake in your hands) - they dish out a pop all of a sudden, with minimal (or even no) upfront warning of a potential strike.
According to my research and reading, the Tarahumaras tend to have that notion - therefore not even on the list.
Any advice, insights or alternatives you might have will be greatly appreciated!
Welcome Gideon! Personally and imho I think any boa is a great pick because boas are great “in general”. Now for your specific questions I am tagging a few boa experts (breeders). @tommccarthy@mattcookreptiles@smite
I apologize if I have omitted other boa experts here so please join in to advise Gideon!
Boas in general tend to have wonderful temperaments. Even individuals who are nervous and nippy as babies will generally grow out of that behaviour with proper socialization.
If you want a docile boa, honestly your best bet might be to just go for a basic mixed locality BI. If you want something on the smaller side, you can ask about the size of the parents and/or look for something with Central American bloodlines. Since you have space for an 8’ enclosure, it doesn’t sound like you need to limit yourself to dwarf localities (which have a reputation for being more on the nervous side, though temperament is always going to vary individually). Most boas aren’t going to get over 8’ unless they’re from a known locality and/or bloodline that gets very large. Asking a breeder about temperaments of parents and individual babies would also be a good idea.
I’d argue that boas give just as much warning about their moods as bps, but their body language is just different. I have three different species of snake, and they’re all “readable” in different ways, you just have to observe them and learn their “language.” I actually find my boa to be one of the easiest to read of my three snakes. It’s pretty obvious when she’s amped up about something vs. when she’s relaxed.
So basically any male BCI will be very manageable in size. BCIs typically dont get very big, when you see some of the monsters out there its typically from poor feeding management/over feeding. Once a boa hits large rats and you can start feeding them a large rat every 2 or 3 weeks and they will never get huge nor will you be stunting their growth in any way.
Thank you for the insight. I’ll see what I can find with regards to Boa body language and see if I can catch up as quickly with that one, the same way I have with those of the BPs.
I think what wigs some people out about boas is mainly their tendency to hold the front part of their bodies in an S-shape, which a lot of people interpret as a “strike pose.” But for a lot of arboreal/semi-arboreal snakes, that’s just kind of how they hang out and inspect their environment.
If you get a baby, you’ll be able to learn their body language when mistakes and misreads won’t hurt (much).
@gideon_hm I had 3 Central American boas. Two females and a male. They all were the sweetest boas and never did any of them bite me or even make an effort to.
Unfortunately due to some health issues I re homed them with a good friend of mine. However I am glad to say that I am taking the male back soon. He is a third of the size of the females and not nearly as girthy. I am so excited!
Seriously though I truly believe that no matter what boa you choose, you won’t be sorry. My vet has humongous a red tail and that girl is a puppy dog.
I would advise you to try to get a baby though, as I did with my three. I firmly believe a human can create a bond with a snake, beginning with the baby stage. However I am sure not everyone agrees with this which is fine. I am just speaking from my own personal experiences with my zoo……
I appreciate the tag and compliment @Caron, I’d like to clarify I’m not an expert though still learning a lot. Hopefully I can check the breeder title off this year though!
I’m sure just like with BP there are always exceptions to the rule, and each individual is different when it comes to personality. I own a decent amount of boas and all have calmed down for the most part, even those that started off hissy. I personally feel the biggest risk for getting bit is when they are initially being removed form their enclosure (same reason they don’t have as much trouble eating as BP ). Start with a young one and tap train them from the beginning and you’ll avoid most accidents that way. Once out, all my boas are trust worthy now. I have had a couple bites in the backyard but I keep chickens and have a garden = rats from time to time. It happened after setting them down for a picture then going to pick them back up. each time I got bit, I reflected on their body disposition and had I been paying closer attention the incident could have been avoided. You’ll grow to be able to read a boa just like you do BP now. I personally trust boas more than BP, I feel like theres a little more “thinking” going on but i’m biased lol
As for type of boa - get what you are truly attracted to. You have room for a larger enclosure so that’s not a restriction. Your confidence will grow with your experience and with them (if you start with a young one). Unless there is some physical limiting factor of course.
All your choices look great to me. I just wouldn’t pick a smaller locality just based off size is all I’m saying. 6’ boa isn’t as big as it sounds most times! MOST times
So I could have sworn you were already breeding so my bad! However I have seen some of your beauties posted so imho you are at the very least, quite experienced, as your post proves!
All I had were the CA’s and a BRB, which I forgot to mention! Oops!
@gideon_hm I forgot to mention that I also had a BRB, which was a bit more flighty than the CA’s. I never had trouble getting the CA’s out of their enclosures but I sometimes put a towel over the BRB to get him out and after that he was fine. He did nail me once when he went for his rat, grabbed my hand and proceeded to coil up my arm! Now that was a good time there!
@smite is totally right about a boa’s food drive and the importance of tap training. The only time I ever have to worry about my boa striking at me is when I first open the enclosure…and it’s not because she’s grumpy or defensive, she’s just perpetually hungry, like most boas. Once she knows she’s not being fed, she’s a delight to handle.
Both the crawl and caulker boas are really neat, but they aren’t quite as watered down as most boa constrictors and you can still end up with a spicy one. I haven’t been around them in almost a decade but back then the Caulker boas could also be picky feeders. That’s probably been worked out in recent generations but the early ones wanted lizards or geckos.
@caron and @smite - Thanks a million for the insights you provided! Truly good advice…I’ll definitely search for listings with young snakes and start from there.
Appreciate the advice! I’ll keep everyone updated about the progress and will certainly post a photo or two once the newest member of the household arrived…
@ballornothing Thank you very much for that valuable piece of information…
Now that’s a piece of information you don’t find on the websites, articles (or even YouTube or Reddit)
It seems as if Crawls and Caulkers aren’t all that popular…and quite a bit more difficult to find; not even to mention the Dumeril’s. And the information I can get from current (or previous) owners I find immensely valuable.
Now here’s a strange question:
With parrots you have opposite-gender connections… Male parrots (usually) get along better with female owners, and for female parrots - just the other way around.
Have you perhaps noticed something similar with snakes?
I know of 2 people on the CB side who have Tarahumara boas and neither has suggested a problem with this. One gentleman recently acquired a beautiful baby, which he posts pictures of quite often. He remarks about how gentle the baby is. Which goes to show you can’t always make decisions by things you read until you experience them firsthand. A risk? Of course! But what’s life without a little leap of faith!
Those Tarahumaras are certainly unique. If you visit CB I will shout out to Patrick. He loves to talk about this new baby/juvenile!
Snakes don’t possess that level of intelligence. The only difference to them between one person and the next is body temperature and how skilled of handler the person is.
Parrots are on a whole other level, in terms of awareness and intelligence, from snakes. While I firmly believe snakes are smarter than many give them credit for, they’re nowhere near the level of intelligence that a parrot has. I don’t know that snakes can even tell human genders apart…and if they can, I’ve seen no evidence that they care or have a gender-based preference regarding human interaction.
All my snakes are female, as am I, and it hasn’t caused any issues. One of my snakes is much calmer and more relaxed when being handled by me vs. someone else, but I think that’s just because I’m familiar and “safe,” whereas another human is more of an unknown variable to her.
Which is why I think some snakes sense the difference in who is handling them. A gentleman I knew loved BRBs so he delighted in holding mine, until he realized he was going to get bitten every time, sometimes more than once. Did that boa know the difference? I believe so. Or maybe it was because I got that animal as a baby and I learned the handling technique to suit him.
To me, unless or until we can get into a snake’s brain, all we can do is surmise……
still learning a lot. Hopefully I can check the breeder title off this year though!
). Start with a young one and tap train them from the beginning and you’ll avoid most accidents that way. Once out, all my boas are trust worthy now. I have had a couple bites in the backyard but I keep chickens and have a garden = rats from time to time. It happened after setting them down for a picture then going to pick them back up. each time I got bit, I reflected on their body disposition and had I been paying closer attention the incident could have been avoided. You’ll grow to be able to read a boa just like you do BP now. I personally trust boas more than BP, I feel like theres a little more “thinking” going on but i’m biased lol
