Black Head/ Cinnamon Alleles

Looking for some insight here. I’m kind of confused as to the relationship between cinnamon, black head, and enchi. So I know that cinnamon and blackhead have a similar reaction with enchi but I get confused when it comes to the allelic relationship between them. Cinnamon is part of the 8ball complex and black head is part of the spider complex. In theory I would assume there could be a possible combination of them all but that doesn’t seem to be true. Would love to know more about this if anyone has any insight.

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Black head is part of the spider complex. Cinnamon and enchi are part of the 8 ball complex. That means that it is possible and there have been multiple listings with the combinations

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That’s what I thought already knowing they are of different complexes. I did find 3 on mm. I just wish they didn’t have overpowering genes on top of them like pastel and lesser. I’d really like to see just the 3 gene interaction.

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Just because a gene has a strong reaction to another gene doesn’t mean it’s allelic.

GHI and Mojave have a strong reaction and they’re not allelic.
Lesser and Blk pastel also has a really nice reaction IMO. And that’s another 2 different complexes.

An allelic combination acts like a super. So in the case of enchi and cinny mom, every offspring will be cinny OR enchi. They cannot be both unless both parents are carrying the other gene.
For a enchi, cinny blackhead you would be able to have the following offspring:
Enchi
Cinny
Enchi blackhead
Cinny blackhead
Because again, every allelic offspring is one or the other. The blackhead is passed on as usual so a 50% chance of inheritance.

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I really wish RGI would make a cinnamon test as they have had enchi for quite a while. Maybe knowing the location from the enchi test development work wouldn’t be as big a shortcut to finding cinnamon as I envision. Also, cinnamon is out of favor so maybe not a priority from that standpoint.

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Correct. Fully aware of how allelic genes work. I was specifically looking for the enchi, cinnamon, blackhead combos as it seems to be a very uncommon pairing/ project. Wasn’t too sure if blackhead enchi was allelic since it has a similar result as cinnamon enchi.

Maybe a cinnamon blackhead combo but with some other over powering genes.

I recently hatched this girl from blackhead pastel het clown X chocolate cinnamon Mojave het hypo. Thinking she would be a good candidate for RGI’s pick 4 test promotion expiring tomorrow if they had chocolate or cinnamon or blackhead tests to go with clown hypo and I suppose Mojave (actually pretty sure she has Mojave and cinnamon). Mainly would love to confirm chocolate and blackhead if she hits her clown and hypo.

Here is brother I’m thinking cinnamon Mojave maybe blackhead.

Here’s 2 I found that had been sold.
Blackhead pastel Cinny enchi

Blackhead black pastel enchi


Your first post is just fairly confusing because the question isn’t that clear. And you’ve been told blackhead isn’t allelic, but you still don’t quite believe it? I don’t understand why more genes on it doesn’t help you understand. If it was allelic it would be impossible to have all 3 genes. You can’t make a black pastel, cinny, enchi for example.

Cinny or black pastel and enchi are common genes. Blackhead is becoming more common. Most breeders are moving towards higher end or less common genes. Or stacking more onto a common genes.

It’s in the works! I was told they’re still looking for a few more super cinny samples. I’m planning to send one in when my boy sheds.
I have a very suspicious BEL I need to test for super/cinny. Lol.

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Awesome that RGI is working on a cinnamon test. I know black pastel is more popular but my collection has a lot of cinnamon flavor sprinkled throughout. Often I’m pretty sure it’s there but would love to be certain. I do think I recall Dr Morrill mentioning in a podcast refining the Enchi test but maybe I’m confusing redstipe.

I’m much newer to blackhead so could use that test to help ID even more.

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I am going to postulate that you are possibly confusing and/or superimposing BlackHead with BlackPastel

BlkPastel is part of the SuperBlk complex, making it allelic to Cinny, HRA, Jolt, Huffman, Lori, and (suspectedly) Enchi

BlackHead, on the other hand, is part of the Wobble complex, making it allelic to Spider, HGW, Woma, Champagne, Spotnose, Chocolate, Sable, Cypress, etc

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