I got this gorgeous black pastel PH pied. However, I feel like there’s something else going on. Barnhart line maybe? Some Trick? Just a fun example of a black pastel? What do you guys think.
And since I have you here… I feel like I’m losing my mind a bit. I’ve had this girl for 8 years now and I was looking at her the other day and I realized… I don’t think she’s a normal, I think she’s a hidden gene woma. Am I crazy?? And yes… We had a shed issue that’s cleared up and figured out.
I would have to agree with this assumption but cant say for sure since I dont have a huge amount of experience with either gene. The other girl however is definitely not a normal. I see spider clear as day with your girl as well as enchi but she could also just be a strange patterned spider too.
not sure on the black pastel, but thats definitely a hgw
HGW crossed my mind but as far as I know it does not have white sides like the snake in the last pic does. Spider is notorious for white sides.
What was the Dam and Sire of the Black Pastel?
And I’d agree with Nathan, looks to be a Spider. White sides are the giveaway. I could agree with Enchi, does appear to be there but I’m not the best with Enchi so definitely don’t take my word on it.
The first one I think is just a Black Pastel with influence from the het Pied. A lovely snake.
Your big girl is 1000% spider at least.
The only reason i would disagree with Nathan’s guess of Enchi is the neck pattern.
If you can post a picture of her once she is out of shed it will be much easier to spot Enchi in there.
Can do! I was so stuck on hgw I didn’t even think of spider… I think they told me hgw when I got her, she was a surrender, but I don’t trust my memory very often.
Not sure, the breeder I got her from didn’t produce her either.
She is gorgeous and FIESTY which is fun. She’s getting better with handling over time.
I went through SO many pictures of spiders and she doesn’t seem to have that tell-tale “bar” across her crown like all the others do. And she seems to have quite a few alien heads on her neck… I know there are variations between morphs, which makes this all the more fun. As @nathan_e said, she may just be a strange spider.
Your BlkPastel just looks to be a regular BlkPastel to me, not seeing anything that screams “more” to me
Your other animal certainly looks like it could be HGW. I would breed it out to be sure, maybe to a Butter/Lesser to see if it makes SoulSuckers
No spider? I was near certain that this is a spider 
HGW always seems a lot darker than that animal. Obviously your a lot more knowledgeable on this than myself, so I will take your word for it 
You are more used to seeing young animals and not older ones that have undergone ontogenetic colour change 
The neck markings and the lack of a well defined head-stamp speak to not being Spider
this is the kind fo thing that really helps me… why a morph ISN’T something that looks very simlar. The differences and comparsions side by side have been a beast to get a handle on. I Have been using the wiki A LOT and grateful for all the advice : )
So HGW can still have white sides like a spider? That was the main reason for me to say spider.
Yeah, some HGW can have a low-level expression of white on their flanks
That’s a very fair point to make, for every one adult I see, I also see a hundred babies.
I will also say I have only ever seen one HGW in person, the fact it wasn’t a adult doesn’t help.
The head stamp is what I was looking for but the shed obscured it.
I like it when I’m wrong, it means I’m learning something new 
A goal we should all strive for
That is for sure hidden gene woma.
