I’ve been breeding my own mice for a few years now and I think it’s fully worth the effort and initial money if you have the space and time to do it.
Pros:
You can get what feeder size you need when you need it
You know what’s going into your feeders and have control over diet (which is a big deal for me)
I think even month to month it is cheaper annually than buying frozen in bulk especially if you’re only running a rack or two
Cons:
Smell if you’re in a smaller enclosed area
It does take time to clean tubs each week and they do burn through a lot of food and water
Hiccups in production can throw off your feeding schedule if you haven’t stockpiled frozen
Euthanizing isn’t fun but necessary (imo)
I also have a vacuum sealer that I use once I’ve euthanized and frozen a batch which helps keep them a bit longer and I can keep track of how long batches have been in the freezer.
I purchased a rack that will make food and water much easier (auto water/feed) however thr cleaning will still be a thing. But cleaning 4-8 tubs a week isnt bad. If i used all of the 24 tubs i could definitely have rats in excess, but id need a good sized chamber or i would be stuck euthanizing rats during all of my free time like 5 at a time.
I have 8 tubs and 2 grow out bins (the reptile basics ones mentioned above) and it takes maybe an hour to get them all swapped over. Whatever you do buy two sets of tubs so you can just swap the old bin out with a fresh one and you don’t have to stop, empty a bin, wash it out, refill it, and put the mice back in. You’ll save a ton of time by having two sets. Also, especially if you build your own rack, make sure to use a tub that’s easy to find more of. Mine was originally built around a specific cat litter pan that petsmart sold and when I wanted more it turns out they discontinued it which meant a real headache trying to hunt down more!
It recommends doing it in the rats home for more comfort, however far and large this is not feasible in colony settings, so a clear chamber with a proper flow valve to control the release route appears to be best practice.
Edit: as a quick sidenote, there has been some studies to show that anesthetics could be a more humane way of euthanizing them, however it is much less available, and im not sure if they would be safe for consumption with the extra chemicals in their system, and mainly is only feasible in a lab setting id imagine. When done properly with CO2 the carbon dioxide actually acts as an anesthetic after a certain amount of buildup, so as long as you dont put the animals into a prefilled carbon chamber and do things correctly, there should be very little suffering.
This is the rack i purchased, thats not a bad idea. If i restrict use to 12 of the 24 tubs, i can just switch them back and forth from top to bottom as i do cleanings so they have minimal stress during cleanings.
Get your starter colonies from a knowledgeable breeder that takes care of their animals. A way to know if youre getting rats from a good breeder is how they react when the tubs are open. You do not want jumpy, flighty, or bitey animals.
Ask them about the food they feed. Look at their fur and make sure you dont see any missing patches, small eyes, short tails, etc.
Ask them about their average little size and the lifespan of their breeders or maturity ward as well. It will give you an idea on how long your breeder females will be around for.
Let me know if you need more info My website seems to be the go-to place for ASF female. That’s the most viewed page and the only thing I really get messaged about haha
Edit; Also sorry for the late reply. I was actually moving and had to move all my animals including ny ASFs and I learned how to move my full collection without losing a single animal
Congrats on the flawless move! I thank you very much for the information as well it seems like ASFs are good for people with the time to tame them down and get used to handling them, but arent as good when it comes to return for the effort from what ive read.
It appears regular rats are more reliable and less… bitey haha. Im wondering if it would hurt with all of my extra rats to have a colony of ASFs and the rest as normal rats, or if their disimilar scents would be upsetting to them (not cohabbing the 2 seperate species, but scent by proximity may cause distress?) If i had 4-5 solid rat colonies, and 1 ASF colony, i could account for picky eaters while still maintaining an overall flow of rats for those that arent as picky. Have you worked with have 2 different breeds near eachother? (Again, not sharing the same tub, but within smelling proximity of one another.
I’ve never heard of the issue being brought up about the different smells of different breeds being brought up by one another. I don’t think there would be a real issue at all.
On a slight but related tangent, look at posture too. Bad diet and overcrowding will lead bad posture. Hunch backed rats or rats with their rear hips tilted forward you want to avoid.
I was able to find a ASF breeder 1.5 hours away from me. I bought about 300 feeders from them and asked for 4 live, 1 male and 3 female. They asked if i was trying to start a colony and they had no issue when i said yes. They gave me 4 young adults, none of them attempted fleaing jumping or biting when i transfered them over to their temporary home. The feeders the breeder culled for me that day, as their policy is they would prefer to spend the extra money on food, space, and effort than provide animals that arent as fresh as possible, which left me with a great impression of their business practices.
I am trying really hard not to name any of them, but I will be using the universal name of “fernando” to whoever happens to be the colony male at the time. I imagine males last a bit longer than females when it comes to breeding, so he may be around a bit haha.
They are all lively and are already eating and drinking. I also got a good number of my fussy eaters to take some ASFs today, so all around a good day. I still want to avoid using ASFs for my future hatchlings as it will become a nightmare for my buyers if all my snakes i sell are hooked on ASFs haha.
On a side note, while i dont intend to bring these guys outside, i do have to ask what is the risk of fleas, and how do you deal with that train wreck if it happens?
Good idea to breed ASF’s in additional to standard Norwegian rats but aren’t those 70 series tubs too tall for ASF’s to reach the food/water? I supposed you could pile in enough substrate so they could reach but I would think this would be less than ideal.
I’ve never bred ASF’s, definitely on my to-do list, but from what I understand you need more mice-sized tubs for them.
That 7024 rack is going to fill your standard rat needs for a long time. The way I deal with cleaning if I have all of my tubs full is I put one tub of rats in an extra rubbermaid style storage bin while I’m cleaning, clean the tub and add fresh substrate, then move rats from a dirty tub into the fresh tub… repeat. The rats I temporarily put in the rubbermaid storage bin go into the last tub I clean (I’d guess it takes me around 30 min - 1hr max). It’s unlikely you’ll have every tub filled for a long time with your collection so you’ll be able to put substrate in an unused tub and just shift the rats over.
That is an excellent question! When it arrives i will have to figure out exactly what will be needed, it should be as easy a fix as setting up a platform they can walk up to reach, but i hadnt even thought of that possibility! Same with the younger offspring will need a way to reach the food and water. Thank you very much for bringing this up!
I’m sure you can figure out a way to make it work even though they’re not the ideal size tubs. More stuff in the tub is more to clean and potentially could cause issues if they are able to shift things around etc.
If you’re settled on breeding ASF’s I’d consider a rack like the 99-15 from Freedom Breeder ($1500 range)
Or I’d get a pack of lab mice tubs with a water setup and wire rack from amazon/walmart/etc ($500 range)
The rat lab tubs might actually be better for ASF’s, given more size, versus the pretty small ones for mice. The benefit of these lab style tubs is the way the top is designed the food and water goes down into the tub pretty far allowing smaller animals to feed/drink. This guy breeds ASF’s successfully in the extra large size:
I dont believe ill have the space yet for a second rack system until i get my basement hooked up with more power outlets so i can move things down there. But the lab tub looks doable.
Im going to waot to recieve the 7024 to see how feasible (or not) it is to make some modifications to allow it to work, and if its just not possible, will look at other options.
Im honestly hoping I can figure it out though, because now that you mention it, even with the standard sized rats the jueveniles are going to need help reaching the systems. It will be more to clean, i agree, but may end up being necessary. I unfortunately dont have the funds to spend on a second rack system, so ill have to mcguyver a little bit until im able to get more space and funds i always try to buy top of the line enclosures and setups because i want them to last and keep the animals happy, i always feel bad if i have to use something sub par, so ill very likely end up getting a breeding rack for the smaller animals to be in until they are big enough to reliably use the facilities in the 7024 a ASAP
Many people breed and raise racks successfully in the larger height tubs but having a shorter tub for the transition stage of the pup/weans allows the babies to nurse from mom and begin eating hard food and accessing water. This gives them a better start compared to raising them only in the taller tubs. This is part of the reason why I prefer Freedom Breeders systems of various sized tubs.
A fifth possible size would be the 70 series tubs that you have coming, I would use these between step 3 and 4 as an additional transition sub for small rats and once they’re mediums they would go into the huge tubs. But I think the 4 sizes I listed above are likely enough. In one of J. Kobylka’s rat videos he says the largest demand in a collection and in general becomes medium rats so the big 44-4 rack comes in handy to house a very large number of those. I think this is the most efficient and ideal setup but that doesnt mean that you can’t be extremely productive with an ARS setup with only two sizes (breeder/grow out), or with a single size like you’re starting off with. If I were starting out with a single size I’d likely go with the 70’s you got so I think you’re on the right track. ASF’s are a bit different and I’d probably want the shorter 15 series racks for them. Either way you’ve got a great setup coming and you’re going to be producing all that you need for a long time to come.
My website seems to be the go-to place for ASF female. That’s the most viewed page and the only thing I really get messaged about haha
