When breeding should there be blood evidence of a lock every time or just on the first lock? I have put my pairs together 3 or 4 times over the last week and a half and had blood on the first locks but none since. I have seen visual locks each time but not as intense as the first locks were. This is my first breeding season and not really sure, but thought i was supposed to put them together several times over the coarse of 2 weeks or so to make sure that they were fertilized. Today was lock 3 for some and 4 for others and the males didn’t really get excited the way they did the first and second times. Should i just stop and consider it done at this point?
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As long as you’re seeing locks, that’s all that counts. If your females have each been bred 3-4 times they are probably good. You can always keep introducing the male once a week if you want to make sure, the female will stop flagging her tail and start just kicking the male off and try to stay away from him when she is no longer receptive to his advances. Sounds like you should see some clutches though!
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No, blood is definitely not necessary and actually not super common (at least not in my experience). Typically you’ll see some yellow ‘leftovers’ after a successful lock. I try to shoot for five locks or until the pair is no longer interested. The females usually make it pretty clear when they’ve had enough.
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How much recovery time are you giving your males? How old are they? Very young and very old males may need a little more time between breedings.
Both males are 2017. I have been waiting 2 days in between. One male has stopped doing anything but the other is going strong.
Two days may not be quite enough for the male with less libido. Plenty of males are willing to mate again very quickly, but it isn’t always in their best interests.
Many people wait three days between pairing attempts. That’s partly to allow for rest and recovery. It also allows healing time for any minor injuries to either party. Mating (of any species) often results in minor tearing of delicate tissues. This doesn’t necessarily or even usually produce visible blood, but it does provide a potential entry point for bacteria. The snakes’ metabolic rate is only about 1/5 of a human’s, so healing takes longer.
You might consider reducing the frequency and see if it helps your less enthusiastic male. How many females are you breeding to each male?
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I have 2 females for each male. I have been pairing them every other day but after the first two times the males will only breed one female at a time so i am now doing every other day 1 female at a time. One of the females bleeds quite a bit every time, the others rarely bleed at all.
That’s an unusual pattern, if I’m understanding it. I’ve got a couple of questions.
First, as I read it, you were initially putting each male together with two females simultaneously. Initially each male mated with each of these two females in short order, but has become less interested, correct? You are now putting each male with one female every other day. One male no longer wants to mate. Is this correct?
Next, you state that one of the females consistently “bleeds quite a bit.” As others have said, this isn’t usual. Sometimes seeing a trace of red in the otherwise lemony-colored, viscous fluid spilage after a lock isn’t terribly uncommon or terribly worrisome. Neither the male nor the female should be bleeding after every mating, nor should they be bleeding much. Do you have a picture? How large is the amount?
I don’t want to get too lengthy, but I would hold off on breeding the female who is consistently bleeding.
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Yes that is all correct. One male is still going strong and the other maybe will go once a week. Not sure if it’s that his females are all finished ovulating or what. The other male goes straight to it within seconds every time but won’t do 2 females at the same time. It’s one of his females that bleeds every time, but he is pretty agressive and so is the bleeding female. I put moist paper towels in and the blood spot is usually about 4 or 5 inches across. His other female will have a spot maybe the size of a quarter at most if any at all. The one that bleeds is over weight but she is just as enthusiastic as the male is. She immediately puts her tail in the air and starts twitching around same as he does. I think i’m done with putting them together this year though. If they’re not pregnant at this point it’s not going to happen. Everyone has locked at least 6 times now. I’m looking forward to a pretty healthy batch. 4 female corns and both of my garter pairs have also locked. I have 6 more females and 2 more males that are either juvenile or sub adult so next year and the year after are really going to be exciting.
Yea I think you have definitely gotten enough locks, no matter what species I breed I only put the male in with a female once a week at most, less when in shed. Sounds like you will get some eggs, I just wanted to make sure you are prepared for double clutches. Even though I would not reintroduce my male corns, or kings almost all females would lay a second smaller clutch. One time I had a triple clutch in the same season!
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That was what I thought you meant. It sounds like you’ve had multiple locks for each female corn. Even with a very eager pair, you shouldn’t be seeing blood like that every time. You’re right to trust that fertilization is either assured or isn’t going to happen and stop those pairings. I definitely wouldn’t keep rebreeding any animal who keeps bleeding. Too many ways that can go sideways.
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Thanks everyone for the advice and help. Multiple clutches would be nice but this being my first year just one each will be fine with me. I started this because my teenage sons were interested. Not sure it will ever be a viable business but it’s a great hobby interest to share with my sons. It all started with a black rat snake one of my sons caught in the back yard and has grown to 17 corn snakes 4 garters and the black rat that got us started. 1 adult male and 1 adult female came from a local reptile store and the rest have been purchased here on MorphMarket .
I got blood recently from 1 female. Goopy blood because it was mixed with ‘leftovers’.
At first i didnt know who was bleeding so i took both off of anymore pairings for the year. Until i got curious. After about a month (today) i figured whatever it was was probably healed and i put a different male with the same female - both males are almost the same:
One is OKEE S.L. het ANERY & the other is OKEE S.L. het AMEL. And shes Anry het SL.
Turns out it was the female whos blood it was but she didnt act like she was in any distress or discomfort or anything, business as usual for her both times. I greatly dislike that she bleeds when with a male and i dont know if i should count her out and let her join the other pets or if its not a huge deal. Shes definitely got some eggs in her from the 1st pairing but shes still receptive to males.
If you knew they locked and suspected she was gravid, there was really no reason to re-pair her, especially a month later. Any damage to her cloaca increases the risk of infection or complications when laying. I’d also double check to be sure there’s no issues with your male, it’s possible she tried to pull away mid-lock and that can cause hemipene damage/bleeding. See how she lays this year, and go from there.
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I don’t understand why you’d put her with another male when you already thought she was gravid AND she’d potentially had bleeding when paired a month ago. There’s zero to be gained by pairing any gravid female, and a great deal to be risked. I hope that she doesn’t develop any infections or complications from this. @noodlehaus is correct about checking your males for damage as well.
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If you haven’t already got an exotics vet, it is always a good idea to get one lined up before your females are due to lay. You don’t want to be in an emergency situation and trying to find a vet then.
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I watched closely both times, with an eagle eye the second time with easy access to intervene if it got rough or neither was interested, but they both werw. She didnt pull away, there wasnt any wild action going on nor any chasing. It was very calm. Youre both right, and hndsight is 50/50, so however foolish it was, my intention was to find out who was bleeding so when i posted here for advice, i could make a decision on whether or not to ever pair that animal again in the future.
If any one of them bleeds every time theyre paired, i certainly wouldn’t ever want to pair them again year after year.
I thought about waiting until next year and try them both again, but what if being gravid and laying eggs is somehow worse for her than pairing with a male? I wouldnt want her to ever be gravid again. I have no problem with putting any of them in a nice glass display and keep them as a pet, as ive done w/ many of them in the past.
Edit:
My point and to answer your question as to why i paired when she appears grvd. I was thinking ahead to next year. If she or he bleeds when mating (especially if it was the female) i wouldnt want to put her or him through the process from a-z for a second year. I wasnt aware it was dangerous to pair a male and female while the female was gravid. So lesson learned. The bleeding is fine, but dont mate a gravid female.
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I do, theres only 1 in my area that will see exotics, avian and reptiles. Have been using him for quite a while. Ive had, and still have several elderly kingsnakes that have needed attention over the years plus a few times for RI and couple times for eggbound kingsnakes. Also doesnt hurt that hes a genuinely nice guy thats also extremely knowledgeable and is never condescending.
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It makes sense that you’d want to know who was bleeding, but trial by fire isn’t really the best way to figure it out, as you now know. I’d have suggested a vet exam, or waiting until next season, even if it wasn’t ideal. Snakes being cold blooded can often take a longer time to heal, so it’s also possible she wasn’t fully healed to begin with, even after a month. Sometimes the female will attempt to pull away from the male before they’ve uncoupled, which can cause trauma and bleeding on one or both. Unless you were watching the whole time they were paired the first time, this can’t be ruled out. This does not necessarily mean it will be a recurring issue.
If being gravid and laying eggs was worse than pairing, you’re going to find out no matter what. The only difference is now she’s possibly got a fresh injury, which can increase the chance of complications. Just be sure to track her pre-lay shed and how many days it takes her afterwards to lay in case she goes too long. When she does lay, do make sure to keep an eye for any retained eggs or further problems. Snakes are masters at hiding weakness, so vigilance will be key. I’d also consider taking her in for a wellness visit with the vet after she lays, so you can discuss the bleeding issue and if he thinks she could possibly benefit from antibiotics.
Generally you should focus on the season at hand before thinking ahead in a situation such as this. It’s not the end of the world that she was re-paired, but once she’s noticeably developing eggs, the reintroduction of a male can cause excess stress, even if it doesn’t look like there’s a problem. There’s also the fact that a gravid snake will have increased blood flow to the reproductive tract, so in reality there was a higher chance of bleeding the second go around and it can’t be used as a metric to whether she will always bleed when paired or not.
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It’s very good that you’ve got an exotics vet with whom you already have a working relationship. They’re challenging to find in many areas, and they’re usually very busy people.
Hopefully things will go smoothly. I agree with @noodlehaus about taking this female in for a post-lay check. Ordinarily, letting her recover from the stress of laying at home, without the added stress of a vet visit would be the way to go but in this case I think it would be worth the trip.
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