The abyss is high on my list to work towards. I was trying to combine a bunch of other dark genes before I saw the abyss. Unfortunately I have a few extra genes in the project animals. My only female mahogany is also Spotnose and harlequin, my male mahogany is likely het pied and one of my female GHI is pastel and the other might be cinnamon. Hopefully can make a GHI mahogany male this year while the mahogany female grows up. With a lot of luck maybe 2023. Wonder if one copy of Mojave would help or hurt an abyss? Further from testing that.
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The only issue with suma by itself I’ve noticed is they sometimes have weird looking heads, but I don’t think it’s linked to the gene, just the blood line. Just like how some clowns have weird shaped heads. I have noticed that suma with cinny/black pastel sometimes have some duckbilling going on
BPs can have weird shaped heads just from being forced out of the egg early (aka not developed enough/premies). Duckbilling is from the black pastel/cinnamon genes, not mahogany or suma. There are no known issues with mahogany or suma.
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I’m aware and I know sumas don’t have issues by themselves. But they do tend to have weird structure just because of the bloodline. Any ball python can have weird head shapes. Quite a few mahoganies just tend to have that structure. I’m don’t think cinny/bp with suma can have bad duckbilling like super cinny/bp, but there have been more than a few individuals who have very oddly shaped heads. I think it’s worth keeping an eye on
Where are you seeing this? I have heard of zero issues with mahogany or it’s super having any defects.
There is zero evidence to support this I’m going to have to disagree.
Snakes with odd shaped heads / pencil necks is usually caused by incubation errors and have nothing to do with the genes. Duck billing is actually a secondary phenotype in the black pastel and cinnamon supers. You can breed both these genes to alleic genes such as het red axanthic and make a super (gargoyle) without any defects. The defects are only present in the super cinnamon and super black pastel.
Yes but I would personally recommend an unrelated pair to avoid potential issues if possible.
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Absolutely.
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That’s a legit dinker right Thur! Love it!
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Thank you, yeah I’m pairing her to my Chocolate Pastel Hypo Het DG male. Usually you should pair to another simple male but she might be alleic with chocolate so I’m attempting that first. If nothing pops up then I’ll breed a son of hers back to her. To see if it’s recessive.
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That’s an excellent choice imo. She definitely has a super chocolate like appearance. I would definitely be curious to see the results of that pairing! I wish you good luck keep us posted for sure!
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Thanks everyone for this great information. I’m definitely going to start refilling the snake piggy bank to get into ball python breeding. I think I’ve got a kinda game plan going on what I want to achieve with the really dark morphs. I’m sure there will be a ton of questions from me still to come.
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the grandmother ghi pin sorry about the pic but she was insanely dark, ghi, black pastel. yellow belly hatchling, expecting this girl to darken like her grandma and a ghi, yellow belly, spotnose that was paired to a pastel superstripe this season we will see what happens.
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@khigg loving the patterns on these! Its cool how they kinda seem dirty and you ran a clean rag down their spine and cleaned up that dorsal show! Grandma is super cool!!
the yellow belly helps the dorsal stripe come out, other genes can do that as well. THE GHI PIN IS SUPER COOL , I sold her to make room she is weighing in at 4000GR. to boot.
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I’m pretty deep in Mahogany/Suma projects.
Suma (darkest normal Suma I’ve seen)
Typical Suma
Suma with unusual striping.
Suma Black Pastel
Suma Pied
Suma Pied (dark)
Suma Mystic Pied
I’ll probably pair BH Pied x Suma Pied soon, as well as some other double het projects.
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I produced these a few seasons ago.
8 balls blk pastel/cinny, wishing I kept 1
And onyxs blk pastel/hra
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Not the darkest but this boy is from this season, deciding on holding back or not.
Ghi/fire/cinny/hra
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I have a super cinnamon girl, but she’s more dark brown than black:
I have a planned pairing for late season that I hope I can hit some cinnamon sumas out of
1.0 cinnamon mahogany het albino x 0.1 pastel mojave enchi mahogany het albino
I haven’t taken any recent pics of them, so I will later since I just fed yesterday.
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All of these are just fantastic snakes. @osbornereptiles those sums are exactly what I will be after.
What a beauty!!
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