That seems a bit closed minded. We as a group and as a hobby should always be willing to listen to information that is right no matter who put it out there. Right is right.
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That isn’t necessarily what I was saying. Ive been treated like crap by a lot of “pros”. Its taken days or weeks for them to even respond to me about offspring from animals they produced and I spent 3k on. And even then it was just " check your genetics, there may be a reduced pattern". I bought this animal from you, I discussed with my wife for weeks about…and thats your answer after like 8 days. I bought a male from one of the biggest DG pros in the hobby and still have him and love him. He had a female that I really really wanted. I checked on that female everyday for weeks, I made sacrifices, I sold snakes I would’ve rather held onto. I inquired about the snake he said yep still got her. I sent him the money in full plus I used to send extra back in the day everyone took PayPal to cover the PayPal fees. Over $3500. He responded back in less then an hour saying he sold that female months ago, here are some similar females. I don’t want similar females, I wanted that female. I checked everyday, she was even updated. And then to tell me that after I sent you the money in full. That was my last straw. I’m not saying all pros are bad. But stuff like that turns people away, and I’ve had a lot of bad experiences with major breeders. Are they all bad…no. but the majority don’t even have time for hobbyists anymore, but they still get 60,000 likes from people who have never even tried to deal with them.
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Nobody, hobbyist or pro, knows everything about everything.
I think it’s still beneficial to hear different points of view, even if you disagree. Raising animals is one of those things where there’s more than one right way to do things and there are definitely wrong ways to do things. For example it’s not wrong to feed only live rodents to your ball python and it’s not wrong to only feed F/T rodents, but it would be wrong to feed to try and feed them only chicken breasts. I think it’s worth hearing everyone out unless they are giving advice that’s dangerous and blatantly wrong (I once saw someone advocating soaking ball pythons in a rice cooker on “low” to help with stuck shed).
I’ve learned of valuable information from both hobbyists and pro breeders and think both can bring a lot to the table. There’s one “pro” who has phenomenal info clips on their instagram about breeding and various situations related to eggs/hatching, but yet I doubt they’d have the time to talk with me one on one if I had a question. On the other hand, there’s plenty of hobbyists who may have more time to chat with me, but probably won’t have encountered and had experience with all of the various breeding situations that this pro has.
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I do find it amusing that Osborne reptiles, which I have admittedly never dealt with before. Can come on here and defend “pros” which i can respect them for. But other big breeders and everyone else is far to busy to do. That must tell you something as a hobbyist.
Can we please refrain from pointing fingers at individual breeders please. And I for one am happy to have Brandon on the forums he has tons of knowledge and experience.
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I think we’re seeing “pro” with a negative connotation. But we’re really not drawing a line between what’s a “good pro” and “bad pro”. I think this is personally our problem, we’re using the word “pro” when we’re thinking of the “pros” that are “bad”. I personally have dealt with “pros” that are amazing wealths of knowledge and experience. Personally, what they’ve had to teach me and add to my knowledge, I wouldn’t trade it for anything.
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It can be easy to underestimate the workload of a “pro” breeder. I recall Garrick of Royal Constrictor Designs, for example, stating he takes many hours regularly to sit down and respond to the various emails he gets. He is one of those guys that runs everything himself and has quite high volume. Between the workload of caring for so many animals, rats and snakes etc, it is quite a task to deal with the customer service side of things as promptly as a much smaller breeder could.
You might be surprised in the amount of “tire kicker” type individuals are out there making inquiry after inquiry without and real intent to buy anything. In the mid 2000’s when I was selling boas there was an individual who went out of his way to pretend to be very interested, ask question after question, but never commit to a purchase. When word got around about him he would change his name to a new alias and start again. There were many threads about it back in the “fauna classifieds” era. He seemed to get a kick out of wasting breeders time. Dealing with people like this can be very draining.
Regardless I’ve had personally had nothing but positive interactions with all the “pro” ball python breeders I’ve dealt with, ranging from good to amazing. No bad experiences whatsoever. I think it’s a good idea to be patient and give people the benefit of the doubt, life issues can occur as well as just overly busy times. I know Garrick had his season crammed into a much smaller period than normal this year and his workload is currently very busy. I wouldn’t expect extremely prompt responses from him right now.
There’s pros and cons regardless of who you deal with but I think you’ll find most in this hobby are good honest people willing to work with anyone who is respectful and reasonable.
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In my experience for the most part with big names in the hobby, though I haven’t dealt with Garrick. They are highly responsive when you spend cash. Having spent that cash and coming back a couple years later with a couple questions about the animals you bought raised up and bred, they don’t give 2 cents about you because you aren’t spending cash again. Or you are inquiring about something that isn’t enough cash for them to respond to you timely.
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Well speak with your wallet then and buy animals from breeders who practices you support more! Ultimately it’s your decision who you purchase animals from.
Yes
Also friendly reminder Tos states we don’t discuss individuals business practices or post reviews.
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I never was good at following rules. And sometimes it takes years to speak with your wallet. Thats all the giving people the benefit of the doubt thing and seeing what happens years later
I haven’t bought a snake from a “pro” in probably 5 years. I sent a trade offer for a 5500 dollar snake and said if that doesn’t suit you I’ll pay cash. I heard back from them days later, “What else do you got?” Nothing I’m gonna give to you, sorry for waisting your time.
Not really if you don’t like the breeder don’t buy from them that’s an immediate choice. Your generalizing all pro breeders based on the experiences you have had with the ones you have dealt with.
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Okay, thats an immediate decision buy a multi thousand dollar snake from a major breeder right now based on what you know of them. Let’s see you do that, then come back 3 years later and see how they treat you. You make that immediate decision right now, don’t talk to your wife for weeks beforehand, go and buy let’s say a 3500 snake right now from a major breeder. Raise that snake up and breed it. Get back to that major name breeders and see what happens. Go ahead and do that right now.
I to work hard for my money so I can totally understand your frustration. But to say all “pro” breeders are like that is unfair and not true.
And I am unmarried 
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It’s coming off as trying to deal with a group of people but not realizing it is behavioral issue.
Rude Hobbyists Are Equal With Rude Pros
Even though they’re expected to act better.
Personally a pro of the industry does not treat people badly, or unfairly. The goodness that they bring to the hobby makes them a pro personally in my eyes. Big collection, or small collection. Five gene snakes, two gene snakes, I don’t care, to me personally being a pro is how you represent every hobbyist by the ethics you uphold.
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Ha I’m not nice. I’ll give you that. This isn’t how I make my money, or how I’d like too. I’d wholesale everything to petco distributors to sell for pennies on the dollar. And that would make my life so much less complicated. I don’t to protect the market. I just ask for the same respect in dealing with people. I have two other legitimate businesses, if I ran them like most of the “pros” in this field. I wouldn’t be 42 and run two other businesses. I just do this for fun and to escape the business world
I was edited, where did that come from
It’s against the TOS to use vulgar language I edited the said language instead of removing the post. They were both flagged but I didn’t want to remove your post.
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That word is vulgar? Its short for Richard. Can’t even speak for myself. Time to leave this place. Ive made it for a long time without social media. Dont need this
By agreeing to the TOS you agree to follow the rules we have in place for the community. You used profanity more than once. It is of course your choice if you want to participate in the community. But by choosing to participate you are also choosing to follow the TOS that you agreed to.
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