Do the animals themselves *care* about natural-LOOKING enclosures? šŸ¤”

I do sometimes wonder if we’re not a little too worried about impaction in our captive reptiles. I’m not saying that it never happens or that it shouldn’t be a consideration with things like feeding and substrate choice. But surely snakes end up ingesting bits of dirt and leaves and sticks and the like in the wild. Do they all drop dead from impaction? Maybe? But probably not, right? Certainly ingesting an excessive amount of substrate would cause problems, but little bits here and there are probably not something to be hugely worried about, at least in my opinion.

Personally, I use loose substrate with both my snakes. Part of that has to do with the species they are and the behaviour they exhibit. One is a sand boa, so she needs loose substrate, as she’s fossorial. My blood python also really enjoys burrowing and nestling in loose substrate, so I’d feel kinda bad taking that away from her (even though plenty of people keep blood pythons on butcher paper and the like).

When I feed, I make sure the rodent is dry, so substrate doesn’t stick to it. My sand boa typically doesn’t strike feed, so I just put her warmed mouse on a dish (though she usually drags it under the aspen to eat it, but that’s natural sand boa behaviour, so there’s really no way around whatever small risk may be posed by the substrate). For my blood python, I wiggle her rat over a wide, flat dish, and she’s usually surprisingly good about striking, constricting, and eating it over the dish (if her strike moves her off-target, I’ll just gently move her on top of the dish once she’s constricting it). Also, her usual substrate is chunks of coco husk that are too large to stick to the rodent, so I’m not really worried about her swallowing anything more than trace amounts of dust. In all honesty, I probably don’t even need to use the dish.

I will say that I think worries about impaction are a better reason to feed in a separate enclosure than fears of misplaced feeding responses or cage aggression. From everything I’ve heard, read, and experienced, there’s just no correlation between bitiness and whether or not they’re fed in their enclosure. A cage-defensive snake is going to be cage-defensive whether fed in the cage or not, and a food-motivated snake is going to be food-motivated no matter where you feed it.

As for impaction, I think that’s more a matter of deciding how much it concerns you personally, and if so, how you want to go about mitigating those risks. There are various methods and schools of thought, and you just have to decide what you feel good about and what works for you. :person_shrugging:

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This correlates with my experience over years of keeping. I’ve had a few species but the vast majority of my experience is with corn snakes. The debate about where to feed has been going on, probably, ever since there have been snakes and keepers. I still do some feeding in separate enclosures, but that’s usually down to my convenience. For instance, if I want to really scrub down their home, they go elsewhere to feed. Otherwise I usually put down several large sheets of newspaper or cardboard and feed on that in their enclosures. There are a few who consistently get fed on a separate bin because they’re bad about dragging their food into the aspen. I am one of those who is paranoid about impaction, having seen a rather horrible case (not mine, thankfully). I feed babies in deli cups. To help minimize insecurity issues, I keep them in a deli until they’ve had and digested their first meal. I know this isn’t practical for all species but baby corns are small enough that it works.

This is true. I believe it’s more of a consideration in captivity for a couple reasons. One, they likely get less gut motilty promoting exercise than they would get in the wild. Two, snakes have different gut flora which may contribute to their ability to handle extraneous bits of stuff. The bigger the snake, the less likely it is to am issue either way but I personally choose to try and prevent the possibility. I accept that this is a little on the paranoid side. :wink:

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I always feed my snakes in their enclosures. It’s faster, and I don’t need to worry about issues with handling. It seems to me that a snake which is taken out of its enclosure to get fed will become more bitey when taken out of the enclosure, because they associate that with feeding time.

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I’ll admit that I have waffled back and forth a bit on how much to worry about impaction. I think my first snake being a sand boa sort of forced me to let go of a little of the paranoia, just because there’s only so much you can really do with a fossorial species like that, where their natural behaviour is to drag their prey under the surface to eat it. Her previous owner told me that he initially had moved her to a separate container to feed her when he first got her, but after a few feedings, she started refusing to eat in a bare container, so I’ve been really reluctant to even consider going there with her.

And my blood python is so good about eating over a dish that I don’t really worry about her, either. Even if she needs to drop the rat or brace it against the ground to reposition it, she uses the dish to do all that, so it never really comes into contact with the substrate. She’s such a good girl. :heart:

I think it ultimately just comes down to what works best for the snake and keeper in question.

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Different species differ, individuals differ.

Indeed, that’s pretty much it. Well said.

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I use aspen bedding for my strike and constrict guys. With the others I use paper towels for bedding because they don’t usually strike and constrict and they are not burrowers.

But any babies I have I keep on paper towels until I figure out their method of eating when they mature. But I never just lay a rodent on loose substrate. However I agree with @jawramik about snakes in the wild ingesting dirt etc and also with @caryl about the gut mobility in the wild (Tried to quote but somehow couldn’t) to keep the gut moving.

I still say none of this is set in stone and the majority of the things being discussed here involve using common sense.

But this is a very useful thread and I think it’s becoming a great resource thread for keepers new to the hobby! :+1::blush::clap::sunglasses:

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I used to think that using a ā€œfood bowlā€ of any kind for a snake would be pretty pointless, but do they really help with avoiding substrate ingestion? Is it more of a colubrid thing? The majority of the snakes I’m interested in are boa or python species, and most of the ā€œhow to feed your snake f/tā€ type of videos I found just showed the snakes snatching the prey off of the tongs in midair. Sometimes they’d coil, and whatever substrate was clinging to them might cling to the mouse/rat, but other times they would just start pulling it in as it was dangling from their mouth, without constricting at all.

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How effective a bowl/plate/sheet of cardboard works really depends on the species and individual snake. My blood python is a great eater and will strike feed or grab a rat off a dish. Normally I have her strike, just because I feel it’s good exercise and enrichment. Usually she constricts when she strikes, but other times she just takes it very daintily off the tongs. Either way, I just try to be sure that the rat is positioned over the dish once she has it, and after that, she’s really good about eating over the dish. The rat really doesn’t come into contact with the substrate.

Not all snakes will be that cooperative. For some, using something larger like a plate or piece of cardboard to cover a larger section of substrate might be more effective. And others still may insist on dragging their prey into the substrate no matter what you do. You just have to figure out what works best for your snake and you.

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Absolutely true! They’re all individuals and their feeding behavior is also individualized.

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Interesting… I would have thought that feeding behaviors just matched up to the species, or at most, were based on how the owner taught them to take food.

A little bit tangential, but… The only thing that still kind of intimidates me about getting a snake (I’ve never had one of my own, just interacted with others’ pets) is the potential for feeding-based accidents… I can’t seem to find a clear answer to this, but how does the snake ā€œtargetā€ the prey item (assuming you’re tong feeding, and the snake strike feeds), and not default to the warm, moving hand manipulating the tongs? I would think that the smell of the thawed prey would be very overwhelming, and in that close vicinity… it just seems like it would be natural to target the more alive-looking object. From the POV of an animal in an enclosure, doesn’t the hand seem kind of ā€œdetachedā€ enough from the owner that it could look a lot like prey? Do you wear disposable gloves to take away some of the body heat and scent?

I also had this odd thought… For whatever physiological reason, my hands tend to get very cold. Like, to the point where medical instruments have actually been unable to get a reading to determine that I’m alive (true story). :rofl: Would the amount of heat radiating from your body at a given moment affect the behavior of a snake? For example, if you had been doing something physically demanding, your pulse was elevated, and your hands were sweating… would that potentially throw off their ability to differentiate ā€œhandā€ from ā€œprey-on-end-of-tongs-being-held-by-handā€? Or if you had just washed your hands with cold water, would that make them less distracting?

It isn’t so much that I’m afraid of getting bitten (though it doesn’t really look like a good time, it still looks a lot better than a cat bite…), but I’ve heard of snakes pulling out their own teeth from gripping on to a human. I think I would reflexively flinch or pull back, and then if the snake already had teeth hooked in… that that could seriously hurt them. :cry:

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Well @adra I have to say you certainly think thing’s through! But here it seems like you might be overthinking a bit?

Actually when I acquired my first snake years ago, it was at a reptile expo. I was with a friend of mine. I picked it out and she bought it for me as a gift for my birthday.

ā€œCornyā€ was the cutest little caramel corn snake ever! But feeding him was the last thing I thought about, in the sense of getting bitten. Since then I have been bitten a few times but only once when feeding my BRB. But that was a fluke/long quite funny for another thread.

Imho, snakes make wonderful pets so don’t create scenarios in your mind that chances are will never happen. Don’t miss out on experiencing how enriching, yes I said that popular ā€œEā€ word, enriching, for a human owning a noodle can be!

P.S. I have never worn gloves of any kind when feeding a snake but I have worn rubber gloves to clean tubs! lol! :rofl::joy::rofl:

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I keep my Australian water dragons in a bio active enclosure simple because it’s less maintenance. I’m not a cage snob, just lazy

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Gonna agree here. Depending upon what species you get, and upon the individual to a lesser degree, you don’t necessarily need to even worry about tongs or gloves. Some species have a more assertive feeding response and precautions are sensible. With the vast majority of my corn snakes, I don’t worry about any of that.
Youngsters go into a deli cup with their meal; sometimes the meal is in the deli when I pick them up and put them in there with it. Sometimes I put them in the deli then drop the prey item in there using tweezers. For roughly yearlings and up, the food is put on sheets of newspaper which I then put into the snake’s enclosure. I’ve had perhaps three with whom I had to exercise caution. I have been tagged perhaps three or four times since 2008. That’s not because I’ve got super-human reflexes. It’s just because my corns have learned where the food is. It’s been my fault every time I was tagged, and though it’s always startling it really isn’t a big deal.

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I don’t wear gloves to feed. I can’t get super scientific about it, but it’s my understanding that snakes are very smell-oriented, and they’re going to identify a rodent as smelling like prey. Your hand doesn’t small like prey (if anything, it’s more likely to smell like a predator). The snake is going to hone in on the smell of the rodent and lock onto that in nearly all cases. The point of the tongs is just to keep your hands out of the way in case the snake’s strike is a bit off-target. The only caveat I would add to that is that it’s important your hands don’t smell like rodent. I always wash my hands with dish soap after defrosting rodents and before feeding my snakes.

I have a food-loving python who gets very excited at feeding time, but she’s never struck me instead of the rodent.

The only bite I’ve taken that was a misplaced feeding response was with my sand boa, and it was totally my fault. I stupidly put her mouse into her enclosure with my hands, because I left my tongs downstairs, and I was lazy and dumb (and also new to feeding snakes).:person_facepalming::joy: Live and learn!

So long as you’re not dumb like me, you’ll be just fine. :crazy_face:

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You are making feeding way more complicated than you should. With tongs your hand is out of strike range. If you are hand feeding there is a chance that you will get bit. I have a video up on FB of me trying to feed Clyde off my palm. He gets excited and bites my thump. ((Lizard not snake). Species can give you some general guid lines bye for the most part most reptiles are not that aggressive of eaters and really show no interest in biting you.

A lot of bites happen when an animal his hull get and get startled by a hand in their cage. This can lead to a half feeding half startled strike. You can avoid this by brushing the snake with tongs or a snake hook before reaching in.

Finally, with some notable exceptions most reptile bites don’t really hurt that bad. They are more startling then anything.

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Thanks, everyone—that’s actually a huge relief. :sweat_smile: I love snakes dearly, but the—I guess ā€œalien-ness?—of feeding techniques has always intimidated me a lot. Even though feeding a whole prey item is actually, in practice, simpler than trying to juggle a variety of foods, supplements, and treats… it somehow seems like it would be more challenging to work with an animal that has such a radically different metabolism and specific diet. I have this picture in my mind of me offering a f/t mouse, and the snake just staring at me, like: ā€œSrsly? You think I’m going to eat THAT? :face_with_raised_eyebrow:ā€ :confounded: I know feeding reactions vary a lot, but do you have to sell them on the idea that this thawed-out mouse is fresh, warm, and alive? Or do they just think: ā€œWell, it smells like food, and it’s warm, so… dinner!ā€?

As for the risk of feeding-related bites, I think I’ve been overestimating a snake’s reliance on heat and movement, vs. scent. I guess because of the intact prey thing—it just seems like if scent were the major factor in identifying a meal, they would try to eat anything available that smelled like food. Yet… if I saw a snake in the wild feeding on, say… roadkill, I’d question my sanity. If I left a dish of hamburger outside overnight by accident, everything from bears, to coyotes, to rodents, to birds might descend on the tempting aroma of raw meat… but no snakes. Is it because intact prey is all they can swallow effectively? Anyway, I think that idea—combined with a few odd anecdotes I’ve read/seen/heard about SFEs—are why I was worried about ā€œmistaken hand identityā€, lol. :sweat_smile:

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What are SFE’s?

As far as feeding FT, depending upon what snake you get and the breeder, chances are you will be getting a snake that is already eating FT. If that’s the case, and I highly suggest you make sure that is the case, then all you have to do is follow the instructions of the breeder as to how the snake has been fed and what it is eating. Pinky Fuzzy Small Mouse, etc.

In the wild, snakes eat rodents, lizards, frogs, etc Most of the time the prey is live and therefore eaten whole. Captive bred snakes eat whole prey as well. They need the bones for calcium etc. There is no need to feed a half a rat to a snake. At least I would not be down for that! Lol :joy::rofl::joy:

So @adra, if I know you, and I think I do, lol, it may take you several months to figure out what kind of snake you want lol! So once we get over that hurdle, then we will make sure you will be able to feed that snake like a pro and we will help you with everything else as well!

So don’t worry about a thing dear! We gotcha! :+1::blush:

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I get that. I stressed about feeding a bit at first too when I got my first snake, just because most of my prior experience was with mammals, fish, and lizards, and snakes have such vastly different feeding habits. Like many new snake keepers, I was convinced my adult sand boa was going to starve to death when she went three weeks without eating when I first got her. My roommate had to talk me down off that ledge. :joy:

Feeding snakes is definitely an adjustment from feeding virtually any other animal. But their unique feeding behaviours are part of what makes them so amazing. Getting to watch a snake strike and constrict something, and then watching them swallow a rodent several times bigger than their head is pretty freaking awesome. I’ll never get tired of watching it.

It’s normal to have trepidation about something new and different, but once you get a few feedings under your belt, I think you’ll realise that it’s really not that difficult or daunting. Mostly it’s just really fun and fascinating.

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This is definitely true. Aside from giant constrictors (and hots, obviously)*, most snake bites are really nothing to worry about. As others have said, most snake bites are more startling than painful. Since they kill with constriction and swallow their prey whole, their teeth really aren’t designed for ripping and tearing through flesh. At worst, you’re usually just left with some little pin-prick type wounds, if it breaks the skin at all.

*Emerald tree boas are one exception. They have some seriously gnarly teeth, I wouldn’t want to take a bite from one at any size. But most constrictors don’t have teeth like that.

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SFE= stupid feeding error.
Weird thing is with babies I kind of like them accidentally striking or biting at me, I relax thinking this one is going to be a great eater!:rofl::rofl:
@jawramik
Just wanted to add even big constrictors a bite is usually not a big deal. The worst thing about them is you get bruised around it from the force. Rarely does anyone need medical attention. I will agree with you 1000% on the emeralds though, my god the teath on those guys! The only other painful type of bite is the chewing that a rear fang snake can do, not worried venom wise but the chewing looks painful!:rofl:

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