Ethics of Spiders and Spider Breeding

Sadly this is the truth and it doesn’t help that there a lot of sensationalist petubers putting out misleading or biased information. Spiders are beautiful. I stayed away from them for month’s while I looked for credible sources to use to make an educated decision about supporting the gene…i think I have about 5 snakes with spider. They all eat great and are very healthy.


Spider ball pythons do not show wobble if they aren’t in a stressful situation. Most pet stores are a prime example of a stressful situation. All the time people take videos of “how horrible the spider gene is” and they intentionally stress out the snake for the video. Many breeders here have spider genes and they live healthy and normally just as good as a non-wobble gene ball python. If spiders are ethically bred, kept, and sold I don’t see why there should be a problem with them.


Seriously Petco?! You’re going to reference that and you expect us to take you seriously, ok.


I mean in a new post they made they said they are new to BP genetics so it is unlikely they have seen a healthy/well taken care of wobble morph in person. So they likely are a kid, or just someone that thinks Petco/Petsmart knows how to care for any of their animals. If they knew anything, they would never have mentioned petco given the horrible care they give to BPs. Let’s just hope they don’t shop/buy animals there . Just another ignorant soul that doesn’t want to listen to people that actually know what they are talking about.


Guys, this isn’t Facebook, so dont treat it like such.

As controversial as the subject is, disagreeing with statements is fine, attacking the person making the statement is not.


Nicely done abusing animal genetics, making these poor animals suffer with wobble just because they sell for more and are pretty. People like this shouldn’t even be in the breeding community. 100% animal abuse and monopolizing gene pools

@ghastpixel Spider and Spider combos actually usually sell for less.
And there is no scientific data that suggests they suffer from having a wobble.
And actually people like that should be in the breeding community, no question. It’s called science and research, maybe instead of hating on these individuals who put themselves out there for the benefit of the community, you should try and learn more yourself about the actual facts of this morph.


The spider morph isn’t as bad as some might want you to believe.

Given the proper care and husbandry, most individuals with spider will exhibit little to no wobble. The ones in my collection rarely show wobble if any, and from what I can see it’s mostly my more stress-prone individuals that tend to show their wobble more. Especially with feeding or handling.

Either way, I respect if you don’t want to support the morph. But please be respectful to the ones that do and don’t jump to ad hominem attacks if you don’t have anything constructive to say.


“It’s not suffering” when some snakes have such sever wobble that they can hardly even move without falling over?

I have worked with a ton of ball pythons, and I’ve never seen a spider that has “such a severe wobble that they can hardly even move.” Where are you getting your information?

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Everywhere. Big Breeding discords, friends who have dealt with spiders and seeing spiders at petco with severe wobble

The only spiders that have severe wobble are snakes that are not taken care of properly and/or are under stress.

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They were Frankensteined into popularity just like pugs were

There is a lot of hype and bandwagoning about spider. You need to make sure you have credible sources and not jump to conclusions. Poor husbandry, illness , over heating, and other problems can cause the severe wobble one sees on petubers channels. How many of the bad wobbles are rescue snakes? How many are being stressed by their owners to make a sensationalist video??? Just wondering.



Here is one such research paper that exists regarding the spider gene. There are a couple other papers referenced in the references section. There is another paper that attempts to study the cause specifically, however I can’t seem to find it atm. If I am not mistaken it was also written by MP Rose.

That being said there were some issues with the research. The main two were implicit bias in the writing, as well as funding source for the research, and the materials and methods left a lot to be desired supporting the validity of the research.

That being said, I have yet to meet anyone that is up to the challenge of proving any of the wild claims regarding the gene. It always boils down to I heard, or I read, or I saw. The last one inevitably comes down to a youtube video that has been selectively edited. Show me the emaciated, twitchy, and hyper agressive due to pain spider ball python. Not one person has ever been able to do so. Which is odd considering the ubiquitous nature of the claims.


That’s what I’ve experienced as well. We all know spiders can show wobble, especially under incorrect husbandry practices.
But to say they have pain because of the wobble is undocumented from what I can gather. All claims with no proof.

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Sorry, I mistook your statement to indicate no evidence on the wobble, my mistake.

Thanks for clearing it up.

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Oh no worries, I re-read it myself and see how you came to that conclusion.

This statement proves that you have no idea what you’re talking about. The Spider morph, and literally all ball python morphs, are naturally occurring. They aren’t something people created through selective breeding. The first spider was taken out of the wild, where it survived, on it’s own. It wasn’t bred for a shorter nose or big, bulging eyes like pugs were.

Bad analogy my dude.


I’m breeding my spider female right now, and you can guarantee that I’m not going to sugar coat ANYTHING if something weird, wobbly, or kinked comes out.