Ethics of Spiders and Spider Breeding

I have a question- no hate of course. There is too much of that in the world :slight_smile:

Are you breeding your spiders? And if so, why? If you know that there is a genetic propensity for a neurological issue, what are the reasons you decide to breed anyways?

Again, just wondering! I just want to know people’s mindsets and reasonings! I always enjoy learning more

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Because there is nothing wrong with them having a wobble. “Neurological issue” is a scary word, but if they live normal lives, live as long as other BPs, and are proven to thrive (eat, grow, breed) just as well as (or BETTER than) other morphs what’s the issue?
(and I don’t have any spiders That I’m breeding yet)

It’s not a debilitating disorder…it’s not “snake Parkinson’s.” That’s a myth.

Boxers have bad knees. Pugs have bad…everything when they get older. Schnauzers get fatty tumors. On and on and on.
If you have a problem with spiders, there are a lot of dog breeds out there you should be freaking out about a lot more. (I bring up other animals because I know it’s apples and oranges but The point is be consistent one way or another.)

If it doesn’t affect their quality of life why are we still talking about it.

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To answer my own question the reason we are still talking about it is some youtubers see wobble and have decided it’s snake Parkinson’s and they must be “suffering.”

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I only have the one, she doesn’t have any noticable wobble but I know her babies have the possibility of it. I plan to breed her because she’s a beautiful animal and I know other people think so too and would love to have such an animal. I also mean no hate back to you, just answering the question: I am breeding her because I want to. thecrawdfather made a really good point with the dogs, if it doesn’t affect their quality of life then what’s wrong?

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My point with the dogs would be if someone just truly believes it is ethically wrong to breed any animal with a known defect and they’re consistent about that, then I can respect that.

But I don’t believe that to be the case, people are cherry-picking one situation that looks “bad” out of tens of thousands of examples and deciding it is unethical.

I think she’s a beautiful animal too if/when you do get to that point of being able to breed her best of luck Blue :slight_smile:

I don’t judge someone for breeding a boxer. If you like them (personally I love their goofy personalities) you understand going into it they’re likely to have knee/hip issues later in life. Same with those other examples they can still have happy full lives and good for them and the folks that enjoy having them in their care.

Nothing at all wrong with the question and it was posed very respectfully I just encourage people to think through their positions and be consistent with your values and convictions. <3

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I know someone that is against spiders/any morph that could wobble, but they just got an English Bulldog puppy not long ago. Like that dog is the least healthy of all breeds and at max is gonna live like 8 years, but any ball python with a manageable wobble will easily live 20 years with good care. I personally don’t like any brachycephalic dog breed because they all have issues simply breathing, let alone any other health issues they face.

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I’m sure to be fair they’ve never even thought about it…but that’s what people do lol. We don’t think, we just react. Glad you had a personal example so I didn’t sound completely crazy tho haha.

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We breed them and combos of them. Some wobble some do not. I promise it does not affect them negatively. Ours feed just as strong as the others. Reproduce just as well.
And I’ll be honest at first I had my reservations but after working with the spider gene. It’s no less finicky of a snake then the next ball python. Our 3500 gram 10 year old bumblebee just dropped a perfect 13 egg clutch. All hatched all are surviving & thriving.

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I totally agree about the dogs. Personally I have only ever had mutts, and am against the breeding of brachycephalic dogs, or dogs with physical or neurological issues. Like you said, snakes are different, but similar. I don’t judge people for buying or breeding pugs, but wouldn’t do myself. I’m the same with the spiders. I just wanted to hear peoples opinions :sweat_smile:

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I will breed mine, no reason not to. the vast majority are fine. Their minor wobble does not interfere with thriving. If they didn’t eat well, and had all kinds of this issues as bad as a few people who never worked with them, but got them in rescue say they are, we wouldn’t have any spider ball pythons.

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Food for the thoughts the irony and hypocrisy of the anti Spider morphs movement is that it essentially targets Spiders when other mutations have similar issues.

The people part of that movement have no real experience with Spiders (owning or breeding) but they heard it from someone who heard it from someone that saw one once in a video.

Spiders do exactly what other BP of other paint job do eat, hide, breed, poop.

Severe example are rare I have owned and bred spiders and never had a train wreck or had to euthanized one, I have euthanized other animals however that would have had not quality of life.

I would bet that 99% of people having issues with spiders own a dog how hypocritical knowing that MOST dogs are afflicted by some genetic issues to some degrees as well.

The answer is simple you don’t like spider don’t own one.

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Personally, I consider it a defect, and I wouldn’t knowingly purchase or breed an animal with a known defect. I’m also not into things that kink, have bug eyes, or most scaleless reptiles either so I’m probably pickier than most. There’s quite a few morphs and pairings on my “no go” list and not all of them are ball pythons either.

In the same way, I wouldn’t purchase a pug or breed an English bulldog. It would be a hard game to convince me to purchase most purebred dogs, lol. I just think they already come in so many other colors that won’t go all weird corkscrew on me because something bothered them so why would I bother with this specific one when I can get something equally beautiful that moves normally?

I’d rescue or adopt one. I don’t wish ill on anyone who breeds spiders (or scaleless or champagne etc etc etc) but I wouldn’t purchase one of those animals.

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That being said I do think they’re very pretty and I do enjoy looking at them. I just won’t buy one.

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Of course it’s a defect.

well yeah. Hence my opinion.

Personally will never own or breed spiders (or in my case scaleless since I want to concentrate on colubrids). I don’t like even the chance of producing or helping funding the production of animals that can have a bad wobble. That being said I don’t poo poo and look down at others who choose to do so (the same goes for dog breeders and those that buy designer dogs). Everyone is entitled to spend their money how they want. As long as the animal gotten is taken care of properly if anything should occur.

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I do breed spiders. I breed them because first and foremost they are a beautiful morph. I have many spiders and not one has been hindered by its “defect” so I keep breeding them. But I can see why people don’t breed them but everyone has there opinion

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I told myself when I started learning about ball pythons and getting my first that I would never own or breed a spider. That morph would never enter my collection.

Currently watching a virgin spinner blast for sale that has no wobble. Interested in it because it has no wobble. People’s thoughts and ideas can change, and I’m willing to give the morph a chance. I won’t know anything about spiders or their wobbles unless I personally experience it.

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Technically they all have some presentation of wobble but many are unnoticeable to the casual observer unless you know what you’re looking for. Olympus Reptiles has a couple YT videos I have posted on these forums before where he shows all his spiders and points out the subtle wobble presentation that most spiders show. But they all have it.

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Shush you. Let me live in my fantasy dream land. :joy:

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