Feeding breeder female.. what is too much?

I have a big 2,500 gram female that went from the sweetest creature who would just politely ask her weekly rats to enter her mouth to a strike right out of the tub give me more beast. She’s also been bowl wrapping in between feedings. Most of the rats we get are around the 90gram mark, so every other week I alternate between one and two. I don’t want to “power feed” but if she’s hungry I want her to have whatever she wants. Today I ran out of 90gram rats, she had already had one and was acting strikey while I was feeding everyone else. So I thought she wanted a second and the only thing I had was a bad breeder rat (three dead litters) at 200 grams. I opened her tub and held out the second rat and she jumped right on it.
Is this normal and is it okay that I gave her almost 300 grams of food?


Freyja, Het Piebald on cleaning day

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Sounds like your gal is building follicles! Her appetite is to be expected. I feed on the heavy side when gals are building. This is my preference others do not. That is if I intend to breed her if I do not I stick to her regular feeding schedule.

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Thank you! I hope her boyfriend will be ready for her, he’s 800 grams and about a year old. His breeder said that most of his boys don’t go until about 18 months.
And if they don’t go this year, at least I’ll know what to watch for next year :grin:

Here is a chart for a healthy weight on BPs. From the looks of it your female is needing a diet. Especially if you are going to give your male more time to grow and get older, which is best to make sure he has healthy sperm.

liam-jo-wulfe

I believe @ballornothing @trnreptiles and @t_h_wyman keep their females leaner when breeding. If she was at a healthy weight she wouldn’t that heavy.

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Rather old resource, but can be helpful.

I try to keep my girls between the “good” and “overweight” body conditions at all times — anything chunkier and I’ll cut back on feeding frequency or feed smaller meals to slim them down again. They usually get fed a small rat weekly.

Too many ball pythons are overweight and even obese in this hobby, so I try to pay attention to each of my animals to ensure they stay healthy.

My adult males on the other hand get fed a weaned rat once a week, and they’re all nice and lean.

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I’ll weigh in after I take a scale out to the rodent room and figure out how big a 90g rat is :joy:

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I use my eyes as my scale! I honestly have no idea how much rats weigh lol

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That’s about the size of my breeder rats babies at 5-7 weeks. It veries depending on the size of the litter. The adult female was about 9-10 months old at about 200 grams.

Exactly! I would quit if I had to weigh 140 rats every feeding lol.

I’ll preface this by saying, for the first two years I bred, I kept all my females between solidly overweight and obese.

First I would suggest, don’t change anything that you’re doing if you want this female to breed this season. Building a clutch and dropping it will cut weight off of her without you having to do it through food conditioning. From here you can just feed her one rat a week until she ovulates if you want but don’t change the feeding frequency or she might back off.

After weighing a bunch of rats, my suggestion would be to feed her two of the 90g rats about 14 days apart and see if she maintains a little tighter physique. That picture may be a little deceiving regarding her size, if she’s currently digesting. She looks a little bloated which is normal during digestion (they don’t pass gas efficiently).

I rarely feed more frequently than 10 days apart and most of my females right at 14 days. It’s not a set in stone schedule though. Feeding breeders is a little more complex than maintaining healthy weight in pets.

You do have to ‘feed to breed’ a little bit. I’ve honed it down to literally 3-5 extra rats a year, through practice. You’re just trying to trick a biological response. All you need is a food surplus to do that, but there are multiple methods that accomplish the same goal.

It doesn’t have to be a scientific endeavor. Think of feeding like the accelerator pedal in your car, get on the gas a little bit when you see building behavior and want them to produce, coast more if you see her looking chunky.

The wildcard with feeding is metabolic efficiency. I hold back whole clutches sometimes and if you do that you’ll see that feeding them exactly the same their physiques will diverge just like any animal. I have some females that will get chubby even on my conservative feeding schedule. That’s where the accelerator pedal analogy comes in.

I use this female as an example all the time because of her sheer size. Even on my feeding schedule she’s a little heavier than she needs to be here. In breeding condition she’s about 43-4400g. She gets about 15-18 small rats a year (probably 130-150g meals). She lays 10-12 eggs every year she goes. This picture is a couple weeks before she ovulated so she’s at her maximum size here. Keep in mind this is a genetically large female and she’s truly mature (10 years old) so her body is a lot wider than anything most BP keepers have seen, but she gets back to this body condition on less than 20 meals a year. That’s about 30 less rats per year than most breeders are feeding. The biggest advantage I’ve noticed keeping them leaner is that they recover bodyweight faster after they lay giving me the option to fast them for a month or two if time allows. Very few environments have food availability all year long, so most species have evolved with seasonal fasting being the norm and I like to play at replicating it.

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Oh my! That’s a big girl :heart: she’s beautiful :heart_eyes:

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Thank you. She is a tank lol. I’m holding most of the genetically gigantic stuff back or placing it with friends but she’s part of my genetic size project.

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I will double down on that, I do not know how much any of my animals weigh except for the ones where people have asked for weights on animals I have listed. If you are determining whether to breed your animal based on weight, you are doing it wrong
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This right here is a great bit and I recommend everyone reread it three or four times to let it really sink in.
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I have found this as well. I believe that animals that are relying strictly on fat to carry them through seasonal cycles are set back harder because their body devotes more time/energy into rebuilding fat first and then switches to trying to rebuild muscle

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I did have our boy Gilgamesh in with her (coral glow het pied) two weeks ago, left him for three days and saw nothing but them sitting on opposite sides.
Last night thought we’d see if maybe they just don’t like each other and put our Lucifer in with her ( spider, Mojave, pastel, banana) and this morning I found them getting it on!

My camera angle is bad, but I can actually see what’s going on from the front of the tub. She does have a stubby tail, but was also a proven breeder before we got her.

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Just to drive the point home a little more on the feeding front. Here are a couple of better pictures of the female above. I’m 6’3” for reference and the boa in the second picture is a nearly 7’ adult. Less than 20 meals a year at that size. It’s even less for the boa. She eats a large rat once a month for a total of about 10 meals a year.


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I feed productive females what they want to eat. I’ve never had one eat more than they needed.

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I guess the point I would make here is that what they “need” is subjective. If we’re judging their wellness and need based on thriving and breeding then my females are eating as much as they need. I think it all depends on the physique you want to see in your snakes. I switched to feeding this way after opening up an adult male that died, and I wasn’t happy with the amount of stored fat or the locations it was stored. They didn’t evolve to live on the fat rich diet we feed them, so in the hopes of increasing longevity and improving overall health, I prefer to keep them on the leaner side. I’m careful about lipid storage in my animals because I worked with production birds for so long I’ve seen as many fatty hearts and livers as I ever care to.

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If more people took the time to do this, I think we would see a MASSIVE change across the hobby in the way animals are fed

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I’m coming in late to this conversation, but it concerns me how many obese animals there are in the hobby. I never feed my adult females more often than every 13-14 days, no matter how ravenous they are during breeding season. Even with that extended schedule, my females are healthy throughout breeding, and while they look a little more deflated after laying, they put that weight back on easily. I also provide all of my animals with enriched tubs and time out of their tubs to climb/explore, which encourages them to build muscle tone rather than store fat.

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