What’s everyone’s thoughts on feeding your snakes rats with weird growths or tumors?
Do you judge on a spectrum, or does everything sickly get fed to the trash can instead?
Evidence for or against doing so?
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I’ve also wondered about this. I used to have pet rats, so I know that tumors are not uncommon with them (most common in adult females). I always check over my feeders to make sure they’re fresh and look healthy, and so far I haven’t encountered a feeder with any obvious tumors (I feed f/t), but I’ve wondered what the protocol should be if I ever encounter one (which seems virtually inevitable if you have any snake large enough to be eating adult rats). Like…just how carefully should I be checking for them?
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From what I understand there’s not any real risk to feeding off one with a tumor. It wouldn’t be something would hurt the snake, but I could be wrong.
Now if it were an abscess of an infection that’s a different story and likely not good to use as a feeder. Anyone that breeds rodents would probably have a better insight to this than I.
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This is just an opinion, and not proven fact; however, my guess would be its OK in theory so long as the animal wasnt sickly because of the tumor.
The tumor itself isnt going to change the DNA structure of the snake becoming a cancer risk, it will be digested and broken down like the rest of the flesh.
However, cancer and tumors can cause a drop in the immune system, toxin buildups, infection, etc. So the bigger risk is going to be secondary effects of the tumor to the rat, and whether this introduces corruption or pathogens to the animal eating the rat.
So if the rat died of cancer or tumor growth? I would not feed it to the snake, as likely there were complications past the tumor that may have an affect on the snake. However if it was benign, or not a serious health concern when the animal was euthanized, its likely that no secondary issues exist yet, and is probably safe. But if the growth has caused it to be sickly, send it to the can.
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I agree that it depends entirely on what is causing the abnormality. Keep in mind that more than one disease process can cause a given abnormality, e.g. as @nswilkerson1 alluded to, a lump could be from cancer, an infection, a parasite, a deformity, etc.
For example, a deformity, so long as it doesn’t cause your snake issues with eating, isn’t dangerous. With rats specifically, most cancers you notice will be benign mammary cancer (just a generalization), which shouldn’t pose a problem. Though gross, I don’t think the complications you’d encounter with advanced mammary cancer in rats (e.g. necrotic center/major ulcers over the tumor) would be problems in terms of food safety.
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I just want to quickly pipe up to make sure that everybody knows to never feed their pets the remains of any animal that was euthanized using injectable chemicals or killed using poisons. So if a vet euthanizes a favorite pet hamster, you cannot feed its remains to another animal, or the life-ending chemicals the vet used for your hamster will be absorbed by your snake. I know almost everyone who reads this will already know that, but I wanted to speak up in case anyone misunderstood @verinium ‘s use of the word ‘euthanized.’
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I know, i am going to a place that i shouldn’t. IN THE WILD, (there i did it) the snakes do not know and do not care if there are problems with it’s food. And yes we have ne real way if knowing what the outcome is. But i would guess that if they all had a bad outcome from eating unhealthy food, then there would probably be a drop in numbers or even end up endangered. (Yes i am going extreme).
As someone who raises their own rats for food, and sells them, anything acting sickly, i get rid of. This is for 3 reasons, 1 - i do not want it to suffer, 2 - i do not known what is causing it so why take a chance in it effecting the snake, 3 - i don’t want to take a chance of it effecting the other rats. In the past year, i only had one with possible health issues. So i am not seeing a large number of health issues with them. And this could be do to not keeping them to full adult as you would with a pet.
As far as anything going on internally, well, there is no way for me to know. Most rats do not live a full life so there is no knowing if there is a problem going on inside them.
With all of this said, personally i do not feed or sell unhealthy food. This is just a personal choice as i believe most health issues within the food will not effect the snake. But since i breed them, i can not take a chance of one sick one taking out my entire inventory.
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Thank you very much for the clarification, to provide a little bit further, my reference to euthanized is CO2 overdose done in accordance with the applicable standards. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://oacu.oir.nih.gov/system/files/media/file/2021-06/b5_euthanasia_of_rodents_using_carbon_dioxide.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiHrKaWgeX6AhWgjYkEHchXBegQFnoECAsQBg&usg=AOvVaw0VOKjBO-Zi0c2mvYc-wWy7
Please never feed anything that has ingested poison, be it rat poison or lethal injection
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Are these your own produced or bought in prey?
If its your own then its a good question to which there are some good responses above.
But, If your buying them, then it raises questions for me about the other standards the seller is prepared to drop in their product.
I wont use a seller again if even I get animals with freezer burn, let ane tumors.
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I have had some rats with lumps, or even patchy/bald areas pop up every now and again mostly because some of my breeder rats were half Rex rats to start so there fur is sometimes curly or patchy. What I do is if anything is noticeable I freeze them then I will feed them off. I do this for my own piece of mind, not because it would harm the snake. I just think if it’s something parasitic or ?. Freezing it for over a week should make it perfectly safe, even though it probably was safe as live. I have seen wild snakes eat roadkill occasionally so I am sure their stomach can handle the occasional imperfection/Ill rodent!
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Yeah, this is the main reason I haven’t been too concerned about tumors in feeders. I figure that snakes (and most other predators, for that matter) can handle eating prey with various ailments without suffering negative effects, given that they’re bound to consume some sickly prey in the wild. There are of course exceptions, like if the prey animal has ingested something toxic, or there may be some contagious pathogens that could pose a danger, but it doesn’t seem like non-contagious health ailments (like the mammary tumors common in adult female rats) should pose too much of a risk.
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The only problem I find with the argument that snakes “in the wild” eat this or that, is that wild specimens are typically infested with parasites. While it’s true they can eat many different types of foods with problems, we not give them a better option in captivity?
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@nswilkerson1 IMO opinion, snakes in the wild eat whatever prey in the wild is available to them whether the prey is healthy or not. That’s the natural in the wild food chain process of nature. Wild snake eats wild prey.
However, IMO, a domestically produced snake should be fed quality food that has been raised domestically for that purpose. And yes, anything that has been chemically euthanized by a vet etc should disposed of properly and NOT used as food due to the drugs injected.
Also, any wild caught rodent, etc, should never be fed IMO to a domestic snake.
IMO, wild and domestic snakes have different immune systems and also IMO domestically produced animals should always be fed food suitable to their needs and not anything that would be considered “garbage”.
So that’s my 2 cents on the topic
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It’s just a personal preference I think but I would not feed a feeder that has a tumor. I know more than likely it’s not going to affect the snake in anyway but it really comes down to just peace of mind. I don’t know, I don’t think I would want to eat a hamburger that I knew came from a cow that had cancer/growths. I’ve only come across one rat that had a tumor on it and I chose not to even defrost it and just toss it away.
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@lumpy Amen!
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That’s very true, which is why we don’t feed our snakes random rodents we find outside, even though those are eaten by wild snakes in the area. And when in doubt about whether or not a feeder is safe, it’s probably best to err on the side of caution.
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Most tumors in old rats is just cancer. Younger rats I’d be suspicious of but older rats? The only reason I wouldn’t want to feed an old rat with a tumor is because tumors tend to have a huge blood supply and when the snake constricts or bites that tumor it will explode and create a massive, bloody mess in the cage. I feed adult mice with tumors off all the time without much of a mess, but the big retired rat breeders with tumors I euthanize anyway because none of my snakes are large enough to eat an adult at.
I agree! Imagine if we treated human children like wild primates. “They make nests and sleep on the ground in the wild, it’s FINE”
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