First clutch, many problems

[deepwaters]

No problems, I’d heard of it too but I never considered it in this situation because

1. My knee jerk reaction was to immediately grab my incubator out of the attic, make a tub of vermiculite and transfer the clutch.
2. Thought they’d be duds and it’d be good practice (see point 4 but also it was literally my first clutch ever so ngl I was very excited but also just didn’t expect anything to happen).
3. When the incubator broke (stopped working or whatever tf happened with that temperature sensor) after those first couple of weeks. I candled them for the first time and realised there were really healthy vesicles present in all of them. So I made the emergency set up and decided if it works it works. If not then
4. Realised there’s a strong chance they were retained sperm eggs (specifically speaking if the accidental pairing was indeed the father of the eggs I shouldn’t have seen anything until mid/end of September, not mid August) then I decided to see it through.

[socraticmonologue]

@deepwaters

if you have nothing of value to input here.

Forum etiquette has a great deal of value.

[caron]

I can understand your knee-jerk response. Several years ago I found 11 little CA baby boas with my CA female. Talk about shock! But I was very naive and kept the pair together from the time I bought them as babies. I figured they could stay together and because I didn’t brumate/intentionally attempt to breed them I felt that everything would be just fine with the male and female together. The male had stopped eating so I had already removed him to an enclosure by himself but the “deed” had already been done…..

After I got over the panic attack I was able to reassure myself that I could handle 11 little boas. My situation was very different than yours because my babies were born live. I am not a snake breeder but I do breed a couple of kinds of geckos.

[inspirationexotics]

Everyone else has already addressed everything else, so I’lll address the ID stuff. I can’t tell exactly which pictures you’re referencing where, but all three dead babies (the twins and the other one) are spider combos. It’s not pinstripe, just spider, which came from your female. Spider is already going to hatch with neurological issues but incubation and/or genetics can cause additional defects.

As for the two unhatched, I’ll be honest, that window picture is not enough to take a guess at ID. You’ll need to wait until they’re actually out (assuming they’re fully developed, as color is one of the last things to develop). As for why they haven’t hatched yet, no one can really know, but cutting eggs that aren’t yet fully developed is a risk of cutting.If they’re going to hatch, they’ll hatch; if not, they won’t.

Ball pythons can absolutely retain sperm (I had one that had a fertile clutch 4+ years later) but I see no evidence based on these babies that it’s retained sperm versus your normal male.

I’d also like to emphasize what chesterhf said here:

@chesterhf

Even this sounds ill thought out, as there is no “removing the spider gene”. The allele that causes the spider morph is incomplete dominant, so ~50% of offspring will inherit this allele.

This is another indication that you don’t know the necessary information to be breeding. I understand accidents happen so I’m not coming down on you harshly here, but this above bit is correct. There is no such thing as ‘removing the spider gene.’ Spider is incomplete dominant and has a 50% chance of passing down to every offspring that your female produces. The only way to ‘weed out’ spider is to never breed animals with the spider gene.

[cmsreptiles]

If you don’t reply any more that is fine.

@deepwaters

Very odd of you to say her health & life were in danger

But I’ll go ahead and go into more detail of why putting a female with a male is dangerous to her health and life.

Dystocia in Snakes | Tree of Life Exotic Pet Medical Center

This Egg Can Be Lethal To A Snake

(Credit to NERD)

Dystocia is one of the worst risks to a breeding female Ball Python or any animal for that matter. If it occurs it requires immediate veterinary intervention or the female will die from it or have serious permanent damage from it. It can happen even to healthy animals that have top tier care.

And its just near the top of a whole list of other risks… including but not limited to:

Risks to Females

•Physical injury from laying eggs such as tearing of the cloaca, rupturing of her ovaduct, or injury to other internal organs surrounding the ovaduct.

•Possibly needing to be spayed, which can fail since their ovaries can regrow or be outright missed in the procedure and result in even more risk if follicles can successfully develop.

•Breeding, egg development, and egg laying can be significantly stressful and taxing to a female BP’s body, possibly bringing the risk of weakening their immune system and making them more susceptible to pathogens… especially since they can go off of food for months and loose the crucial need to gain nutrients to battle ailments.

•If the female is not at an appropriate body condition to be bred all of the risks I listed before and more can happen and seriously damage or kill her.

Risks to Males

•If males are not at an appropriate body condition they can become seriously ill or die from months of refusing to eat.

•Males can have prolapsed hemipenes, get debris stuck in their hemipenes and cause permanent damage or serious life-threatening infections.

•Breeding can be significantly stressful for males as well, and stress can weaken their immune system or result in refusal of food.

Risks to the Offspring

•You’ve already experienced losing a majority of the clutch, thats the first risk.

•Offspring can fail to thrive after hatching, for many reasons.

•Offspring may need to be euthanized if they hatch with a serious deformity that prevents them from basic functions. It can be extremely difficult and emotionally taxing to make the call of when to euthanize… you may have to make it before confirming if they can even eat and pass waste.

•You already said you plan on keeping the last 2 just as pets, thats fine and well. Just remember they can live a very long time- some cases extending to 60 years or so I’ve heard, and over that time period housing and feeding them can become very expensive. Not to mention that life will throw curveballs at us that may result in you not being able to keep them anymore. Otherwise the risk exists that you’ll never be able to find them another home… or you’ll have to spend a very long time trying to find them another home.

[noodlehaus]

Because I am on vacation and thus in no mood for pettiness, I’m going to not so gently remind everyone that we have a set of community guidelines that must be followed. If you’re unfamiliar with them or haven’t given them a read in a while, I suggest a refresher. They can be found by clicking here.