First Clutch of the year Identification Help

Our first clutch of the year always throws us something that we can’t readily explain.
Dam is supposed to be cinnamon pastel pos fire(hard to see, but almost has moss green flaming on her sides)
Sire is supposed to be mahogany chocolate butter

How did we end up with such a silver baby?
*I have been researching this particular pairing for 3 years, part of a long term personal project nothing that looked anything like this has come up.
Mother



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Babies

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The silvery baby looks to be super cinny.
I think your sire also has blkpastel or cinny. especially with the way his sides make the chaining pattern. I can’t say for sure, but I’m thinking cinny, lesser and mahogany not chocolate.

Super cinny can lead to kinking, so I would double check this little one later on. Also, shark mouth or cleft lips can happen. This side looks pretty good on that one though.

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Agreeing with @armiyana , the baby looks like a super cinny. The father is likely mahogany cinnamon butter without the chocolate, or have blk pastel. I’m kind of just restating what @armiyana said, but hey, I agree.

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** EDIT TO CORRECT MY BRAIN PLAYING TRICKS ON ME **

Sorry, brain was scrambled yesterday… Chocolate, Wookie, and Sable are allelic and for some reason I confused Wookie and Mahogany. My absolute screw up there

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Did I miss chocolate and mahogany being proven allelic? Last I heard they were not even suspected.

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Good question! And also news to me.
I thought chocolate was spider complex and mahogany was it’s own complex with stranger.

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The problem is that I’ve checked every possible combination and the sire doesn’t fit any of the other possible genetics. We also have 1 baby in there that looks perfectly like what a mahogany cinnamon chocolate should look like.
Our thoughts at this point is that we possibly have a partially partho clutch.
We’ve had the female since she was 1,000 grams and the male was 300 grams. This is the only male that has ever been near this female.

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I’d say pastel cinnamon mahogany lesser probable chocolate. It’s not a super cinny, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the all gene. Here’s a pastel cinnamon butter mahogany as reference, since butter and lesser are the same:

Edit: I’d say all gener

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Thank you so much. I guess the search feature isn’t showing me the combo animals. But this one definitely looks right :heart:

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No. It doesn’t look right. because that hatchling is a dead ringer for super cinny.
Also keep in mind that @t_h_wyman is a geneticist and familiar with many of these genes.

Adding these photos as well.
2 of which are my pastel super cinnys I had as hatchlings. You can see the same black blotching pattern as yours. And none of the neck patterning on the one incarner posted, which is also not on your snake. The second has a bit of shark mouth and you can see how the head structure is similar to yours as cinnamon and black pastel can affect the features on the nose.

The adult is my cinnamon lesser(butter) satin. You can see the same patterning from how the lesser and cinnamon play down the side.



It could be a partho baby if if it’s female, maybe. But when multiple people are telling you the ID of the father is wrong and the baby looks cinny…I’d consider proving out the genetics on another snake or test when the genes are available through RGI

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Sorry, brain was scrambled yesterday… Chocolate, Wookie, and Sable are allelic and for some reason I confused Wookie and Mahogany. My absolute screw up there
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But he is also human and gets things wrong. I never mind questions on things I have said and always invite discussion. I do not want people to just swallow what I say as gospel :+1:t4:
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So… Re-evaluationg after my SNAFU, @incarner may be correct that the animal in question is the Prego (“It’s all in there”)

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Thank you. You did at least spur me to go back through and re check all the possible outcomes.
It gets a little crazy when you’re combining so many genes that there are few or no photos of how they should look.
We will definitely be keeping this one.

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I think your Sire is Chocolate Cinnamon Lesser. Here is a link to a similar gene animal that sold here. I hope this isn’t against the rules to post since it isn’t available anymore. It looks almost exactly like your male and this would explain the hatchling as well.

(Cinny Lesser Chocolate Ball Python by Bobs Balls)

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All the babies have shed, absolutely gorgeous start to my darkness project. I did 2 photos of each on different backgrounds to show as much as I could.
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