Hey all I am pretty new to hognoses but have been researching them for a while.
Based on what I’ve seen, prices for hognose snakes have been dropping lately, aside from designer and new morphs like purple line or swiss chocolate. I’ve also seen other people talking about this, like Wickens Wicked Reptiles just did a video saying he thinks their prices will keep dropping. As someone who just barely got my first and second hognose with intentions to breed them in the future, this concerns me. It is for the best and inevitable, but still something I worry about because I’d love for animal breeding to be a small time business that I can keep paying for itself.
My questions are do you think the prices will keep dropping? What makes you say that? Have you noticed anything that might affect this? If you think the prices will drop, how much?
I know these questions are situational, but I am looking for a more overall understanding from people on the inside of this. For example, on MM you can buy an albino female hognose for $200-$250 easy, but locally to me an albino anything(male or female) is being sold for $600-700, and they do sell. I’m sure this won’t always be the case, but I’d like to understand if anyone else is seeing this for themselves.
Think of it this way - it’s supply and demand, and the demand is still there, it’s just that the supply is expanding as well. Hognoses in the past have been a somewhat harder-to-find species (in comparison to, say, ball pythons or corn snakes) which is part of why their prices were higher - not as many people producing them. However, they’ve gained A LOT of popularity in the last few years and I know many, many people who want to keep them, both in the pet world and breeding world. So yes, more people are producing them and therefore prices have come down - but also, a good number of new people have gotten interested in them, which means the demand is still high.
I suspect that prices will remain about where they are. I don’t anticipate them dropping too much lower, at least not permanently - these things happen in cycles and the market is down for everyone right now - it’s a buyer’s market, not a seller’s market. That will change with time, it always ebbs and flows.
That said, I will caution you against looking for a profit - making a profit on breeding most reptiles is difficult and it’s a very good way to burn yourself out quickly and end up wanting to get out of the hobby. If your prime motivation is creating a business that makes money, I would advise you to think about how much hard work is involved in that to keep things running. If on the other hand you love the species and you’re just hoping for the breeding to cover the cost of keeping, I think that’s a reasonable goal - just be aware that it takes a few years to get established and start seeing those returns.
Hognoses have the potential for some really cool morph combos, and while I’m sure they will come down in price, I don’t anticipate this being a species where you can pay $100 for an albino - at least not anytime soon.
That makes sense, thanks for your opinion! I think it makes sense that there is more supply now than there has been since demand went up. I can also see that in the morphs that are still in the rarer side so I think you’re right there.
I will say, I’d love if I could one day turn it into a profitable business, but for the foreseeable future that isn’t the goal. I’d just like to make my hobby pay for itself.
I guess part of me is just wondering because I like to keep track of my future breeding plans and costs to see if I can make it a net neutral. I totally understand that it’s not a perfect system, but if I can do the calculations it just makes it easier to have an idea if I need to save extra for the hobby or not
I honestly don’t think you can maintain a net neutral right away. There will always be expenses for enclosures, enrichment, food, cleaning supplies. It’s just a matter of how much you’re putting into it. And the quality/health of your breeders. And hognose snakes can be big on cannibalizing their mate or eggs as well so be aware of those potential losses.
I’ve heard quite a few people say that you won’t really make a profit until you’re past year 5. I don’t know how true that is…but I’ve heard it so much that it seems to be a general idea in the hobby. I know I’m still trying to get out of my hole. I just like digging deeper it seems…
Absolutely agreed! I have plenty of patience and flexibility on how all of this turns out and I fully plan on this being long term. My anxiety gets a lot better if I make a general plan though, so even if it wont be at all accurate it helps.
I fully plan on being in the hole for the hobby for a long time, especially since I want to do ethical breeding practices so I will perpetually be adding new bloodlines to my collection. One of my biggest concerns with the trade is keeping the animals healthy and educating people about reptiles, I just think it would be amazing to have a collection that was able to provide me with some retirement income in 30 years if I do it right. This is a goal though, not an ultimatum
Imho I think you should look elsewhere for extra retirement income because I do not think you are going to achieve it by breeding hognose snakes. I would invest in IRA’s, silver, coins, gold etc.
If you really want to breed reptiles as a hobby and possibly make a profit down the road I would look into less available snakes such as rubber boas, Indian sand boas, Loxocemus bi color pythons, or even sunbeam snakes. Very rarely do you see captive bred sunbeam snakes……
I am a retired oldie so I’m already there. I accidentally ended up with a surprise live litter of 11 CA boa babies. It was quite a process waiting for them all to shed and then getting them all to eat. I sold the majority of them to a family owned pet store for 50 bucks a piece and the pet store turned around and sold them for 249.99!
Anyway you can take this advice or leave it. I just wanted to put in my 2 cents, or would that be 20 dollars due to inflation?
So its always been my plan to go into multiple different things to get retirement income in the future, and honestly I totally get that it wont come from just hognoses. My intentions are to move into some more rare reptiles once I’ve gotten some experience with hognoses since I’ve only ever had corn snakes and I’d like to ease my way into the harder to care for reptiles. I’d really love to do this especially for some of the local species of my area, but we will see if the opportunity ever presents itself because I don’t think there are even breeders for them yet so they would need to be collected first.
Sunbeam snakes have actually always been something I wanted to try so that might be my next project! Are there any others you have off the top of your head that you think might be worth trying or at least looking into? I appreciate your opinion!
Pet stores are insane with their prices, not sure yet if I would ever be willing to work with them. I’ve kept my options open just in case, but I’d definitely prefer to sell to individuals in person or online.
Yes I knew that I was practically giving these boas away to that pet store but at the time I was so unprepared for these babies. . I was blessed to make a bit of money while finding someone to take them. As a matter of fact I started a little savings pot that had grown over the years!
I will think of a few more rare finds but ringed pythons just popped into my head. They are gorgeous to say the least. I have been perusing MM for years so I know I will think of a few others that I would love to have but are not in my budget! .
But you really should check out the rubber boas. I have only seen one or two breeders on MM and rubber boas are so cool! But 750.00 is not in my budget!
It’s good you had the animals best interest in mind it sounds like, but I’ve never heard of the ringed python though they look gorgeous! I’ll do some more research on them. As for the rubber boas, what makes you think that they are so cool? I just don’t know a lot about them either
I’m really hoping to do more education that breeding since I know that’s going to be a longer term project and I’ll probably need to find someone willing to follow me in my projects in some way eventually.
I am working on a degree in environmental science focused on ecology, so I’m hoping to come up with some ideas too test out eventually as well. That will be dependent on what I can study though, so more of a personal endeavor. Hopefully I can add to the reptile community in my own way soon
They are adorable imho. It’s hard to tell the rear end from the head end.
They will wrap around your wrist like a bracelet and stay there - so you can wear them if you want!
Right now there are only 4 of them offered on the entire MM by the same breeder at 600 bucks a pop. That’s not chump change imo and no supply to speak of. And I do not trust the breeder offering these guys so………not sure if others feel the same way
These are 3 reasons that are good enough to me to delve a little deeper if I were to start a breeding hobby/business.
One more suggestion: Calabar Burrowing Python only because most that you see on MM are wild caught and I think these are quite unique.
Here is the thing when it comes to snakes that are “rare” in the hobby - you are looking at a large investment in time, money, and heartbreak
The reason most species stay rare in the hobby is because there is something about them that means the “traditional” way the hobby like to keep things is not going to work for them. It may be in how they breed, it may be their diet, it may be the conditions they need, it may be something you have not even imagined. You will have losses. LOTS of losses. And I have heard many many people say they are prepared to deal with that, but it is one thing as a nebulous concept and a whole other thing when you have 20 or 30 or 40 animals in your freezer and still have not figured things out
No one has really figured out sunbeams or Calabar boas, despite many trying. That is not to say you will not be the one to figure it out, but I can guarantee you will not be successful if you undertake the project on a whim
Rubber boas are a long-term project. You cannot push them like most of the hobby species. It will be a minimum of four years before a neo can grow to breeding size but more realistically you are looking at five to six. You have to be very attentive to their seasonal cycle. Getting babies going can be a difficult. And then there is the legality aspect of them
Yup all very true of course. It’s very easy to encourage people to do things that are not feasible especially when the person encouraging, in this case me, has no experience. The difficulties of breeding these 3 animals needed to be addressed most definitely. Thank you Travis. Sounds like the ringed Python could be a possibility since you did not include this one in your post.
I will keep all this in mind before I make the mistake of going out on a limb and suggesting that someone do something that is not feasible.
Sorry for the interjection. What’s so cool about rubber boas? Everything! The way they sneeze in defense to the two headed look. Even a big female is still small. They can live 50-70 years! No joke. Feeding is simple. 5-6 pinkies two or three times a year, if that. They are nest raiders. Some eat like any boa. Pick them up, hold a f/t pink in their face, gobble gobble.
Their musk is something else. I’m talking burn your clothes and scrub hands with bleach and steel wool. Lol. You’ll still smell it. And love them for it.
Plus, they live the farthest north of any boid so even canadians get to enjoy them. I do.
What else can be said? Size, personality, colour, ease of keeping. They’re not hard to breed (brumated for four months @ 5-6°C) but it does take years to grow them and they usually only produce every 3 or 4 years.
Maybe it’s just me that loves them and thinks they’re so great.
Definitely not just you, I adore rubber boas! I’ve actually never seen one in person, but I still think they’re amazing. If/when they become more available captive bred, and if/when I figure out a reliable way to keep them at the proper temperatures throughout the different times of year, I’d love to own one some day.
No I love them too! That’s why I suggested them in the first place! Granted I know nothing about breeding them but keeping them seems fairly simple. So I am so glad you spoke up about them because I was feeling kinda low after suggesting them to @knotsoframed as a breeding project……
Thank you @gabonica1 for loving them too! I just wish I had one!!!
Yay! Another rubber boa lover! Now I know I’m not crazy! They are so cool aren’t they Jennifer! But expensive! I do wish they were more affordable and accessible as captive bred. So far I’ve only seen 2 breeders/sellers on MM……but both were captive bred
Really the most reliable and easiest way to keep them is to have them outside in the yard.
They abhor any temps over 24°c so they must have a way to get cold. A three to 4 foot deep pit with structure built in. Mine is on the east side of the house. Layers of rock being best with a good foot of soil over it. Pile of large loose rocks for basking with a few spaces big enough to push a mouse nest into. I have seen them cuddling the rocks when it’s -2°c. At 7-8°C they’re active. If you need a sweater to go outside, they are active.
About every 6 weeks, at night, when the temp is over 14c, They get a six pack of ft pinks, each. From the fingers, one at a time. If I see them. Otherwise I leave them in a nest of paper towel and wait. They come out, usually right away.
Once in a while a stranger shows up. There may be three or more, I don’t know.
I saw 3 babies in 2023.
Now, where they came from.
I worked on a hillside that we destroyed into a quarry. Finding a place to release them all, where they have resources and a proper habitat, wasn’t easy. Humans are (add expletive) so that was a factor. So are cats. I can usually find the transplants where I placed them.
Please don’t judge me too harshly. I couldn’t leave them in a quarry full of machines that had eradicated their homes.
I have no reason to judge you whatsoever! I love your story! Keeping those sweet precious little animals that way is so awesome to me that it can be done. In a natural habitat and not a “cage”, tub, tank etc!
And yes I do so agree that humans can be so incredibly destructive when it comes to destroying natural habitats and replacing it with concrete. Although don’t judge me either because I live in a subdivision while watching farm land around me shrink……
Thank you so much for your post @gabonica1! Rubber boas are not only cool, they are extraordinary animals for sure!
No judgement here, you basically just made your yard a hospitable habitat to make them happy. You didn’t try to force them into a house pet. Sure, you’re offering them food and such…but as long as they’re a native species in that area it’s not something that can have an adverse impact on things worse than an active quarry would have.
It’s kind of like adding native wild plants to your yard to encourage native birds or butterflies… Just boas instead
I do not have first-hand experience with ringed pythons so I refrained from speaking on them. Given their history in the hobby however, I am inclined to think they fall closer to rubber boas in terms of requiring long-term thinking and a need to address a fairly specific seasonal cycle, but I have heard there may also be aspects of mate-selection and/or breeder ball behaviour that may also need to be met. That is all just supposition, though
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I absolutely LOVE my chariana colony and never claimed they were a bad species. I was addressing causes behind their rarity in the hobby and, peripherally, why they might not be a species fit for “commercialism”
