I said it was a possibility. I also said a possibility is that the sire is bamboo instead of butter, which is absolutely true.
You are correct about not getting retained sperm from two different males in the same offspring. That’s why I said it was MUCH more likely that the banana sire is bamboo.
Plenty of people do not know how to ID their own animals - I spend half my time reporting ads on MM for incorrect IDs. I mean no disrespect, but you are currently an example of that. These babies are bamboo. That is so plain and obvious to see that it’s painful. You are incorrectly identifying them based on pairing info that is obviously incorrect, because it’s what you “expect” the babies to be. They are not what you expect - they are bamboo.
Once again, I would stake my business on this. OP, I encourage you to test the babies - I would even help you fund a test. These babies are bamboo. If @t_h_wyman’s process of elimination is correct in that it can’t be retained sperm because those babies also include genes from the banana sire, and that the sire can’t be both bamboo AND butter because of pattern (which I think is possible but also unlikely), the only two remaining options are that the sire was mis-identified as butter when he is in fact bamboo, or that bamboo or a bamboo-like mutation randomly cropped up in your clutch. Of the two options, the sire being bamboo makes A LOT more sense. But either way, you have bamboo in babies, no matter where it came from. #2, #3, and #7 are all bamboo combos. I encourage you to test them to confirm, but the bamboo mutation is right there to see.
Going on the assumption that the sire is bamboo INSTEAD of butter and was just mis-IDed as butter, we’re looking at dad being a banana bamboo pastel pinstripe rather than a banana butter pastel pinstripe.
Almost identical to dad. Dad is bamboo, babies are bamboo, dad was mis-IDed. You CANNOT trust that breeders know how to ID, because many of them do not. I spent nearly a year memorizing and studying morphs before I ever started breeding. These babies are bamboo. It is ridiculous to pretend they are not when we can see the mutation right there.
Ok so the dad is a butter not bamboo. I’m saying this because has butter liter Mates. According to breeder. Now I’m saying the daddy gene could be in both animals in a het don’t know the linage of cinnamon so it is possible. That’s why I’m saying could have. Daddy babies look crazy with just pastel. I’m just throwing it out there. because the parent animals are easy to see butter and bamboo are way different. The male snakes parents. Next time number 7 sheds I will be sending it out. For the rest I don’t want people to fight really just wanted to play a percents game and give breeders higher percent in my averaging to see. I will be keeping 7,1,2,3 that what I think I’m going to to. Please keep guessing and remember till Kevin ,Justin or Mike or one of those mega breeders that have hatched 100000 snakes says what it is us hobby folk just don’t know that’s why the DNA tests help.
I’m going to test 7 for sure and the dad we will know. I thank you for your input I truly do the breeder of the banana said it’s bamboo as well just not from his end. Thanks
A major reason people do not know how to ID animals is because they just make garbage up in the absence of information/evidence or because it just fits their personal ideas. We were given pairing information. I have chosen to work within the information that was given to us. Your choice was to throw out unsupported assertions like that the male was a BluEL or that it was retained sperm, neither of which are supported by any of the evidence here and yet I had to very plainly point both of those simple facts out
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Firstly, disrespect very much taken. Second… You might find yourself more than a little surprised by how much I know about reported ads
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Daddy is not a common gene and the odds of it randomly popping up are extremely low. Additionally, there is a characteristic phenotype it produces in combination with any other allele in the BluEL complex that is not present in any of your animal. So no, the Daddy gene is not at play here
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Being able to breed snakes does not mean any of these people are divinely gifted with superior knowledge, they all make mistakes. Quite plainly, Kevin alone is responsible for so much misinformation about the hobby that even decades later some of us are still having to clean up the mess he made
And yet I had to point out that these animals are bamboo. Bamboo is one of the easiest genes to recognize in my opinion, and you didn’t recognize it. You claim that my assertions were unsupported by evidence but the evidence is that the babies are bamboo. Disrespect was not truly not intended, but nonetheless there is bamboo in these babies. If you need a genetic test to prove that, I hope OP will post results here.
I have no doubt you know what gets reported in ads. You probably see a lot from me.
I’m not going to continue arguing. I tried to stay respectful, but that’s very difficult when I make a correct ID and am rudely shot down by someone who clearly isn’t seeing the morph that is there. Just because you’re a staff member doesn’t automatically mean you know more than I do, or that you’re entitled to shoot my ideas down when I’ve presented reasonable and true IDs of the morphs of these babies. There’s no reason to walk all over me. We could have had a reasonable discussion about why I see bamboo, but instead I was forced into defense mode. I’ve provided comparison pictures with bamboo animals, I’ve explained the markers that I see. If you refuse to see bamboo there there’s nothing else I can do but encourage OP to test and post results. This truly can be solved with a simple shed test for babies or dad.
The only time my Staff status comes in to play with my posts is when I make them in the highlighted Staff colour. Any non-Staff posts are me posting as me
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I was disagreeing with you. My pointing out the very clear ways that it could not be dual paternity or that the sire was not a BluEL is not “walking all over you” or “rudely shooting down” you any more than you posting comparison pics was you walking all over me or shooting me down
Ok, I don’t want to be disrespectful… but why don’t we take a minute here and back away from this?
OP just wanted help IDing some babies that were definitely different, its starting to spiral into an argument that wont help anything but cause tension, whatever the argument may be about doesn’t justify that.
The only thing here at this point that will settle matters is this right here.
Its a great tool to have @liquidanthrax and it will clear up whatever may be goingon here.
Imo the sire is bamboo, and not lesser. None of the offspring from this clutch are lesser.
My IDs:
pastel
pastel bamboo
pewter bamboo
banana pewter
banana pin
pastel banana
bamboo bp pin
pewter pin
The sire of the clutch is definitely bamboo. He matches the appearance of bamboo banana pastel pins, and not banana kingpin. He’s very pretty regardless! You can shed test him if you want to be sure, but the babies and sire are definitely bamboo imo
Yes on the father then number 7. Or who ever sheds first the baby just shed in the group so I don’t know which one was theres. So think the male will shed first. All the animals no can’t I can’t do that. The 280 for the two animals is a lot.
I was just wondering which one you could have shed tested to confirm the bamboo in question. Evidently the father has been mentioned. But it appears that the next time either baby 2, 3 or 7 sheds and you can verify that shed with that particular baby any one of the sheds would be all you need to have tested……280.00 is in fact a lot!
As an FYI, Ben has stated that the baby skin in not always the greatest one to use for testing so you might want to wait for their first “real” shed skin to send in for testing
