Help with Caramel types

Pythons Reticulated Pythons
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Hi, I have a quick question. I have looked everywhere and cannot seem to find a simple answer that’s dumbed down for us newbie breeders in the hobby. The questions are in reference to caramels, specifically Indo Caramel.

When I check on the MM calculator, there are Indo Caramel, Caramel Albino and Caramel Albino (Syntec). Are all three of these the same type of caramel or are they all totally different? More specifically, can I use these interchangeably when plugging in caramel, i.e. instead of using Indo Caramel, I just type in and use any caramel and they all translate to the same thing. I didn’t mention Foulsham as I know this isn’t located here in the States.

I’m asking because when I plugged in Indo Caramel x OG, the results show up two different types of caramels, Het Caramel Abino and Het Caramel Albino (Syntec). I apologize for such a long question and any helpful explanation would be appreciated. Thank you!

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So long answer-
Basically the caramel lines are most likely all in the albino complex at the very least. They may possibly be all the same gene but different lines. Foulsham may have been the result of unknown hets being imported.
There’s a small blurb brought up in the Morphipedia for caramel albino

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Eventually with the advances in genetic testing we might know if they are all just different lines of the same gene.

Since they’re all in the same complex that means they act like a super when combined. The genetic calculator seems to be posting results in a confusing manner. I’ll tag @eaglereptiles for that. It looks like the morph combo for orange glow is making it an issue

Again, all of the genes in a complex act like a super so the orange glow offspring would all be either het for white albino or syntec
A visual caramel albino would have all het for caramel offspring.
Because all of the offspring are het for 2 different genes in the same recessive complex they will all be visual offspring.
The results would actually be 2 options based on your inputs.

1 - visual caramel albino (caramel/syntec)
2 - orange glow (caramel/white albino)

There’s some more in depth genetics I’m sure can be broken down, but that should be the easiest explanation.
Hope that helps!

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Thank you for this! Finally a full explanation and not snippets of partial answers. So whenever it comes to Orange Glows, it will always be Syntec and not Caramel Albino? For example, if the calculator states Het Caramel Abino and Het Albino (Purple Phase), is that considered OG like a Het Caramel Albino (Syntec) and Het Caramel Albino (Purple Phase) would?

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I know the Foulsham caramel and albino animals are called Ameretto.

I’m not 100% versed in syntec vs caramel and such but I believe any of the caramel lines in the US with albino are considered Orange Glow. So that would be yes. Both would be considered OG.

If you are using a specific line of caramel you can still say something like either:
Orange Glow (purple albino and syntec line)
OG- 100% het purple albino & 100% het syntec Caramel

However if you don’t know if your caramel is from a particular line, I would just go with the generic ‘caramel albino’.
So:
Orange Glow (purple albino)
OG- 100% het purple albino & 100% het caramel

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I really appreciate your response as it was thorough and easy to understand. I hope this helps others like myself as well. Thanks again!!!

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Also works with purple albino…I wrote that section when we were researching all the morphs

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@army_brigade_constrictors here is a diagram on the morphs

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The one thing that is notable is that orange glow het purple and orange glow het white are still going to be now labeled as orange glow (purple) and Orange glow (white)

And that they are all compatible

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Oh sorry was just using it as an example on how it could be labeled. Didn’t mean to imply it only worked with white.

Although that IS handy to see that the Foulsham has the label of coral or Ameretto depending on the albino het.

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Oh no, you’re fine. I was just trying to bring as much clarity as possible. I think the diagram is a really helpful and actually a beautiful tool to map out genes that when combined with other ones have different combo names and things of that nature.

Thank you for your help on this one too :wink:

Or the thing with mocha turning to Mochino

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Although actually that morph calc result does look a bit confusing… I tagged the mighty eagle to check on that
It might be better to read as 2 results and not the 50/50 it shows.

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Hold on let me look back…

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So that would give you orange glow (white)s…

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@armiyana it looks like it is reading that Indo caramel is what it’s supposed to be. The issue looks like it actually is having with the orange glow (white) because we don’t know what kind of caramel orange glow has.

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@armiyana i will send Thomas a note about it

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I appreciate the reply as well lumpy! It can be extremely confusing but this helps a lot! I can see that Orange Glow and Caramel are the ones that’s going to give me problems in the near future, lol…

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I will also say that upon reading that list, again the Caramel is throwing me off again. It states that
Indo Caramel x Moca= Mochino Het Mocha but when you put Mocha x Indo Caramel= Indo Caramel Mocha. Why isn’t it the same as the previous but just flipped around. Again, I apologize for my ignorance concerning genetics…

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I believe it is a mistype. Other research has not shown me that it matters whether what one is male or female. So both ways would be :arrow_down:

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@army_brigade_constrictors do you mind posting pictures of the babies? I think we would all love them :wink:

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Understood completely. Thank you!

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No babies yet, lol. I’m just educating myself and making sure I fully understand before breeding takes place.

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