I need help Identifying 2 hatchlings. Please

Geckos Leopard Geckos
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Hi everyone. I'm still new at breeding Leopard geckos - I've done a fair amount of research but I'm stumpt - but don't know what exactly I have on my hands. Both hatchlings are from the same pairing.
Any advise would be helpfull.

I know the hatchlings are still very young and that the patern could change. I'm just wondering if it is possible to tell what the morphs could be.
Please excuse the containers they're only temporary

Pairing: Snow(Mack), Eclipse, 100%Albino(Tremper) X Albino(Tremper), Cinnamon
Or atleast that's what I know of (Never knew the father was het for Alnino so more surprises are possible )

This is one of the hatchlings. It looks almost asif the eyes are solid red - and if I’m correct that indecates that there is both albino and eclipse, but i could be wrong :sweat_smile: -, I’m srtuggling to take photos of the eyes.

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Please note that this one was born with the tail deformation/ short tail .


This one has me completely stumped


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I have no idea what this one could be other than Albino(Tremper) and Possibly Eclipse

Note: Sorry if the text is a bit long I was only trying to exsplain to the best of my ability.
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No idea! But they are both so cute!

Will tag @mblaney though.

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I also think that both of them are too cute. I just can't wait to see what else hatches out. My breeding season only started around August here in South Africa so only a few of my eggs have hatched - Sorry for any spelling mistakes English is not my Home Language

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Maybe wait until they grow a little bigger, baby leos change their patten when as they grow.

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@godzillao4 Ok I’ll do so :+1:t4:

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@mblaney @erie-herps
Please help the op Leo gurus :rofl:

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It looks as though the second baby (the bottom) could be snow temper het eclipse (because one parent has the gene while the other doesn’t). The first baby looks to be just Tremper het eclipse. I don’t know enough about the cinnamon gene to know if it’s recessive or codon.

That would be my semi-experienced guess.

Enjoy the babies!

Cheers,
Erik

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Thank you very much Erik

From what I have gathered the Cinnamon is a recessive gene that was derived from the Bandit but I could be wrong

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They are adorable! :heart_eyes:

Unfortunately, if you genuinely aren’t sure what genetics the dam and sire are carrying, there’s no way to definitively say what morph they are.

I’m a little confused- you said that the albinism was a surprise, but if two albinos of the same strain are bred (the pairing you listed), 100% of their offspring will be albinos. Thus, the albinism should not have been a surprise. Maybe I misread something? Did you mean ‘100% het. for Tremper Albino?’

They are most likely both Tremper Albinos, but since the albinism was a surprise, you cannot make assumptions, as your source info about the background genetics was incomplete. So, for example, both parents might have been het for Rainwater, and these babies could actually be Rainwater Albinos, though that’s not as likely as Trempers.

The ‘Cinnamon’ morph just refers to a dark Albino, and the term is often used incorrectly. We have to have clear pics of both eyes to check for ocular mutations. Again, though, you’ll have the same issue as with the albinism- Marble Eye is much less common than Eclipse, but you can’t know for sure that any ocular mutation is Eclipse.

Mack Snow is something that I’ve never worked with as a breeder, but it’s my understanding that Mack Snow babies are born with patterns that are very smeared in appearance. The top one is not a Mack Snow, but the bottom one possibly could be, I’d wait for someone else’s opinion about that.

They are too young to know final pattern, so there’s little that can be said about that.

So here’s the technically correct answer:

Baby 1: Albino (unknown strain), Reverse Stripe, with unknown hets and ocular mutations TBD.

Baby 2: Albino (unknown strain), Jungle, possible Mack Snow with unknown hets and ocular mutations TBD.

Here is the likely answer:

Baby 1: Tremper Albino, Reverse Stripe + either het. Eclipse or maybe Eclipse.

Baby 2: Tremper Albino, Jungle, probable Mack Snow + either het. Eclipse or maybe Eclipse.

I would let any future owner know that they are Pet Quality with unclear genetics that shouldn’t be bred. That doesn’t detract from their cuteness though!

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Everything said above is super helpful. I agree with that so here are my thoughts on their morphs. Do you have pictures of the parents?
If the eyes are solid red (usually dark, a clear picture will help) then it will have albino and eclipse.

  1. Albino Eclipse (I don’t know enough about reverse stripe to make a guess on that)

Mack snow will remove or extremely reduce the yellow pigments. If there is extremely little yellow then it is likely snow.

  1. Albino Mack Snow (I’m not positive on Jungle)
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Thank you very much for the feedback I really appreciate it.

Down here I'll just try to clarify what led to my conclusions if that's allright. Plaese if i come across as abrasive I'm realy not trying to be stuborn or anyting and I'll apoligise in advance.

I'll try easing the navigation with links to the topics but I don't know if they will work.


The reason I say Tremper Albino

Ok so in my country (to clarify I live in South Africa) there are only 2 known strains avalible for purches namly Bell Albino and Tremper Albino.
The sire
The breeder i bought the sire from only works with Albino Tremper and i did clarify that earlyer tody because i wanted a difinitive awnser from the breeder, so that has been cleared up earlyer today, also a previus paring confirmed it.
If the strains are not compateble in the sence that their mixing wont create Albino offspring then it is mostlikely that tha offspring of my pairing is Tremper Albino

The eyes

I completely understand the reasoning behinde what you are saying and I completely agree with you, I can't take clear photos because of their current size and age and will wait untill they are older before comming to a conclusion about that.

The pattern

I honestly did not know what they could possibely be because I've never worked with patterns I've thus far only worked with Mack Snow and High Yellow. This is my second year breeding.

Mack Snow

I've learned to spot mack snow a littel bit but never with albino in the mix.

Why Albino was a surprise

Albino was a surprise for me because I only secently descovered that the male was het for albino. i descovered it due to myself paring him to a Known 100% Het Albino(Tremper) dam and reciving Both a Mack Snow Albino and a Albino from her Clutches.

I"ll most likely hold on to them for the future most likely as my pets and nothing more, and I do apologise if what I typed was a bit unclear.

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Yes I do have photos of the parents. Please just keep in minde the photos are a bit old (about 5 monthes old for the father)
the photos were taken shortley after I resived them.

Father

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Mother (she had allot more weight on her before i started to breed her thou)

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The sire looks like a low-expression mack snow. So I would say the second baby is also a low-expression mack snow.

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Thank you very much.

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The sire is also Eclipse (from the pic at least). It’s been a few years since I’ve bred Leo’s, but what I can recall, Eclipse is recessive, so the babies would both be het for it (unless something has changed for that gene).

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It is a recessive trait but it can be quite obvious when seen and the dam could be het for it.

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