Recently, about 2 months ago, I started my adventure with python breeding. I fell in love with these creatures, especially the beautiful black varieties. My flock is small and currently consists of 3 snakes, two females and a male, but in the future I would like to purchase a female and a male to breed black varieties.
All the snakes are the same age, approximately 6 months old. I know I still have a lot of time before they can breed, but I’m already thinking about mates for them so I can buy young specimens.
I’m counting on tips and advice. What would you combine these snakes with to get really beautiful black laces? Would it be a good idea to breed my Black Head Black Pastel 50% Het Pied female with a male with the same genes?
Yes, I’m following the topic. Some breeders write that they have no problems, while others experience terrible things. Which male would be best for this female to have healthy and black offspring?
You can’t reliably say which cinny or Blk pastel pairings will kink out. So you could be looking at waiting 2-4 years for nothing.
Every super in my clutch did, so I’m not repeating that pairing again.
You could try going the GHI and super mahogany route. That also makes a pretty dark snake.
Unfortunately those combos are very well known for producing offspring with defects, so I wouldn’t take the risk. There’s plenty of other great dark genes you can bring into the project - mahogany, acid, leopard, black head, GHI
I am currently thinking of finding a GHI Mahogany male for my female Black Pastel Black Head. I’ve heard a lot of good things about Mahogany and GHI so it’s worth a try
Thanks for the advice. Given the issues with Super Black Pastel, I’ll have to seriously consider the genes you mentioned. Do you have any idea what kind of female would be good for my male Cinnamon Pintstripe Yellow Belly? Or should I rather look for a female that has the genes you mentioned for great results?
If you’re planning on breeding, I think you should do the legwork of looking into different morphs, what they look like in combos, know how to identify them, any defects or issues associated with them, marketability and probability of offspring results.
It’s on of my weird personal lines in the sand that I don’t reccomend pairings or ID other people’s clutches - if you’re breeding and producing animals, you should know that information. It feels like doing someone else’s homework for them
I’ve started on the super mahogany GHI route (trying to work pied and hypo in too). The first GHI Suma (combo coined “abyss”) I saw posted was stunningly black. I’ve seen others since not quite as perfect. I am wondering if it could be further improved with blackhead and/or leopard. Black pastel (one copy for above mentioned reasons) might also help. I have cinnamon in my project a bit by accident so will see if that helps or hurts (maybe cinnamon will brown the black). But I would for sure recommend adding GHI and mahogany to your mix.
I understand your approach. On the other hand, if it weren’t for the acquisition of information, many breeders could just as well create genetically loaded combinations, just because they tried the trial and error method. At the same time, I understand what you mean, but I also don’t see anything wrong with my approach, in fact I think it’s healthier, because potential life won’t suffer
There are a handful of people on this site I have a great deal of respect for and Hilary is one of them. As a new member, that probably does not mean much to you but if you hang around her long enough I think you will understand why I bring it up
Main point being, do not be so quick to dismiss someone’s point of view as less valid than yours just because it is different
I am of two minds on the topic, I see your point and I see Hilary’s:
-You are correct that helping people by alerting them to complications is a beneficial thing and I do not think anyone here is gatekeeping that kind of information, as is evident by the number of others that mentioned the possible problems of a SuperBlk pairing
-The flipside, how far does a potentially very one-sided flow of information go? In the past couple of years, the hobby has seen a huge influx of people that want to be spoon-fed literally everything. They buy snakes without knowing what they are and then beg others tell them what morphs they carry. They breed everything they have but do not even know the basic traits of their animals and so they cannot identify even the most basic of single-morph babies in their clutches and so they post them up and tell everyone else to ID them. They put their animals in a cage full of soaking wet, dyed garden mulch, freak out when their animal suddenly turns a strange colour but then argue with everyone that points out it is because of the dyed mulch.
What I (and Hilary as well) am saying is that there should be a balance in how much someone is asking for versus how much they should be acquiring through their own research. The line Hilary draws for that balance may seem harsh for you, but that is her personal choice based on her years of experience in the hobby. You obviously draw that line somewhere else. Frankly, you caught me on a good day because usually my line is to not even open threads like this because I am so old and cynical LOL
Just food for thought, take it for what it is (or do not, your choice)
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As a reference, this girl is an example of what adding just one of those mentioned genes can do when added to your Blackhead BlkPastel…
But you were ready to breed not just super Blk pastel knowing there can be issues that cause suffering and death of the hatchlings…but also potential super blackheads. This is why research is so important.
Super blackhead can also have problems
Also…do you know what the 50% het means? This is VERY important for you to have researched on before asking this. And are you aware that a super Blk pastel pied can end up just the opposite of what you want and be 100% white?
It’s great that you’re so far off still and looking into things… But this is really the point where you should already know the normal female is the least ideal prospect for breeding. You’re going to need a powerhouse of a male to make the offspring worth the energy both you and the snake will put into breeding. The market is very rough at the moment with a single gene cinnamon going as low as $20 wholesale in the US. Or possibly less. That’s just what I sold a few off for.
There’s so many things to consider from the issues genes can have to how to ID what you are working with. Posting for ID help is understandable when working with some new or rare genes… But you really need to know what your genes should look like individually.
Networking or finding someone to discuss things over is great because you can learn from that hands on experience. Asking people to ID for you isn’t going to help you learn.
Thanks for the comment. I didn’t mean to sound rude, I respect a different opinion. I felt attacked, although that’s a very bad word. I think it’s good to get to know the tips and “tricks” about combining genes. If everything goes well, I will start breeding mine in 2027, when my pythons are mature, that’s plenty of time. By then I’ll probably change my plans. Assuming I’ll use the advice on connections 100%, as @armiyana put it “writing down the homework” is unlikely
All this has given me food for thought though, and I will definitely have to think it all through carefully.
Research is your friend. There are TONS of good info on YouTube alone. You can YouTube research every day for 6+ months and still have lots more to learn.
Yes, I know about the things you wrote. However, I have not heard about such major complications with Pastel. I have also contacted other breeders, on other forums and as I wrote earlier, opinions are divided. You are definitely warning, others are more “enthusiastic”. Personally, however, I will follow your advice and focus on other genes. I do not plan on commercial breeding, I simply want to enjoy nice and healthy snakes that I will like. Nowhere did I ask for python identification, unless I misunderstood something or you meant something else.
I wrote to someone earlier in a comment that if everything goes well I will be able to start breeding in 2027, so a lot will change by then. I didn’t ask these questions to get a ready recipe and use it 100%, but to get to know a few ideas and tips. That’s all
Not Pastel gene.
Black Pastel. The same complex as Barnhart Black Pastel and Cinnamon.
I am warning because I have bred them.
I wanted to see if the keeping eggs at a lower temp and slower incubation would help as some breeders had suggested may be contributing to the issue. I also did not attempt to handle and left the eggs alone as much as I could.
I still had to put down 4 of 6 hatchlings for severe kinking or severe facial deformities. This is after doing footwork into purchasing animals from lines that did not show kinking when the parent was a super or facial deformities associated with the single gene and super. So I tried to minimize the issues as much as possible. It’s something I am not repeating.
I currently own a super cinny that I took on as a rescue as well with a kink in his neck.
The IDs is just advice because it is definitely something that will help you learn what to look for and know how a gene may react with another when bred. I know I’m always digging through new posts looking at genes and trying to learn more about them before picking them up. Learning the most about the genes you’re working with will only increase your success.
I am like you in the fact that I am absolutely enamored with dark snakes. The darker the better. I have a rather large collection of ball pythons and some of them are very dark blackheads, which are my favorites.
Now I respectfully ask you this question. Have you considered just collecting/buying the snakes that you are wanting to enjoy in lieu of breeding them? The reason I ask this is to me it would be so much easier than going through the breeding process/hassle and play the odds on what you will end up with.
Aside from the morph to morph possibilities and issues, there are other things to consider. You will definitely need a reptile vet lined up which hopefully you already have since you own reptiles right now. You may end up with babies you don’t want to keep but have trouble selling or even giving away, therefore you may end up with a lot of mouths to feed as well as a lot of cage maintenance that can be expensive in the long run.
In addition you could end up with babies that won’t or can’t eat on their own at first so you will be responsible for trying your hardest to help them survive and thrive. And through no fault of your own you could end up with a baby that needs to be humanly euthanized.
I am a collector but because of my own stupidity I ended up with 11 baby boas one day as well as one deformed baby. At first I panicked but after I stopped screaming I jumped in. After they all went through the shedding process it was time to get all of them to eat. A few ate at first, then a few more until finally everybody was eating, which took a few weeks. Then I had to find homes for all of them. I ended up giving 4 to friends and selling the rest to a mom and pop like pet store for 50 bucks each. The pet store turned around and sold them for 249.99 . Did they ever make the moola on me! .
So for me, breeding is a hassle. I would much rather pay someone else to do all the work so I can reap the benefits. I have made good use of MM over the past few years. There are a lot of great breeders there who are more than willing to consider reasonable offers and some provide payment plans. There are some really good deals to be found and of course the auctions are another avenue to check out. I am not a big spender but I know I have come away with at least one very high dollar snake that I paid chicken feed for.
So I don’t know if you have checked out any of the bps on MM but there are anywhere from 40 to 50 thousand listings on any given day with tons of beautiful dark snakes to choose from. You don’t have to wait until 2027 to start your hobby.
Now again I am not dissing you or your breeding aspirations in any way. If you decide to go ahead with your plans I say go for it! I am just speaking from my own experience with both sides of the coin. And I am lazy so I would much rather let someone else do all the work! And believe me breeding is WORK!
Im running Grim and strangers, these are some of the best dark genes you can get honestly, they just amplify the shadowing so well that with any gene its notice-able , also have a chocolate stranger het g stripe that looks quite nice as well so chocolates not off the table to help bring some darkness
I just want to throw a small grain of caution here - YouTube can be a good resource. It can also be a great place to find absolute garbage. So always apply your critical thinking hat
I jumped in. After they all went through the shedding process it was time to get all of them to eat. A few ate at first, then a few more until finally everybody was eating, which took a few weeks. Then I had to find homes for all of them. I ended up giving 4 to friends and selling the rest to a mom and pop like pet store for 50 bucks each. The pet store turned around and sold them for 249.99 
And believe me breeding is WORK! 
